Kara-Moon Forum

I've always been a fan of Joe Walsh's early soloalbums like "Barnstorm" and "The smoker you drink, the player you get" before he decided to join The Eagles.

This song was inspired by his work from that period. I've used certain elements that are characteristic for a number of songs on those albums. It's not an attempt at a full emulation. I just used it as a starting point.

http://www.martin-e-music.nl/mp3/lifeline.mp3

Excellent as always Martin. This has to be one of your best so far imo. I love the subleties going on in the background with the lead guitar and bubbly synth. The acoustic guitar sounds wonderful too. You're a good composer as well. Top track.  :)

i keep meaning to do a guitar track, but i hav'nt felt confident enough to go for it. I'll try soon i think though.  ;D

Thanks, Blipp.


The Hagstrom twelve string has a wonderful sound and is very easy to record. Hardly any hassle to get a decent sound.
Looking forward to your guitar track  :)

I notice that Hagstrom are coming back into vogue. They have just released a new range of electric guitars and they look great. 

I'm getting tired of saying 'Perfect'  ;D
But that is what it is, top song

ok, i have to keep my reputation of honnest critics here.
I could use a good moody bassline

Yeah, I know I happen to have one of those too.  ;D  The Super Swede.


Thanks, Kara. I never get tired of hearing it  ;D

Do you want me to post a song that really sucks?  ;D I have some, somewhere. ::)

No bassline in the making I'm afraid.

smooth.  I love the harmony in vocals near 3:20.  I dont know that I ever heard joe walsh so I cant comment on the influence, but I have played little guitar, your style influences me but I will never get there.  super smooth.

:) ;D :) ;D I like those albums !  8)
This is a great tribute to his music, and although your voice has a different timbre it is in a similar style (you lack the southerner accent  :D).
Great guitar playing, nice touch and tone.
I love this track, congratulations. A keeper indeed.

Cheers

Thanks, BB


Well you must have heard "Rocky mountain way" at some time which is of course more of a rocksong and the song that's sort of well-known from that period.

Thanks a lot Laguna. I'm glad you think it's a fitting tribute, coming from a connoisseur.

Joe's voice is more nosy and high pitched indeed. But it would have been ridiculous if I had tried to sound the same  ;D

Hi M,

I dont know Joe Walsh but I dont care.
I know Martin E.  ;D
It's horrible, what can I say ? After 3 seconds I knew I will liked it.
Like usualy...  ;)

I liked a lot the overdubbed vocals. Superb!
A bassline could be cool, I agree.
Very soulful song. Again I'm amazed  :o
Dont you want to do something like this but using David Crosby as starting point  ;D

Thanks to share!

bye

mag

Martin, you've been hacked, I know people shouldn't do that but sometimes the flesh is stronger then the will  :-[

Even the kara girls had to participate  ;D

 ;D ;D Hijacked indeed. Stop the thief someone ran off with my song!!!

Must admit the bass sounds alright in the second part. In the verse I feel it's less appropiate. Also maybe because the bass doesn't follow the bassline of the acoustic guitar (e d c#)there.  Where the chords are Em Em7/d A9/c# and the fourth time round a Cmaj7 is added. Nice touch on the kara girls. Now I want a whole girl choir.  ;D

Thanks, Mag. After 3 seconds.......that's pretty fast  ;D


David Crosby is much harder to do I think. He's very subtle with his harmonies
Stephen Stills would be closer to my abilities  ;D But who knows when the right song pops up out of the blue.

I knew there was a C# there, I just couldn't place it without a chord chart  :-\
I've done this just for fun. I'm concentrating more and more on bass since I'm a bit tired of keyboard.

If you need femal choir on your songs don't hesitate to ask, she (the mis kara) had a lot of to do this  :)

Thanks I might take you up on that. Could be fun. ;D

No problem, don't forget this place is all about music & collaborating  8)

Thank you for posting it !  :D

I hear bassline too. And also drums.

Maybe rock band behind you... hmmm...

It has Led Zeppelin vibe to my ears.

I think you have to know that this is very beautiful, as people have been pointing out.

I would like to hear the voice have as much presence as the guitar, or slightly more.

The harmony vox is a little more there.

I like what Kara did as well with the bass, and ms Kara's  female voice, while changing the character slightly,
did strengthen the vocal for the better and fit in very well--*very* well.

For my part, when a song has vocals, they are the most important part of the mix..that means everything
else in the song is there to present the voice..often a maker of music leaves his mark when the music is the strongest element.

..as a guitar player myself, I have had many chances to remix because of the guitar being larger in the song than
the vox. ;D

To be clear about this: ..I am talking about a small difference..about a subtle difference.. and I don't want too many words to make it sound larger than I mean it, or to sound like any sort of a criticism.

Absolutely beautiful work you did here..of the highest order.

Wyatt

Thanks, ES. I know Zep has a couple of these acoustic songs as well. But Robert Plant is of course a quite a different singer. I'm not in his league.

Thanks for your input, Wyatt
I don't mind some criticism.
I can't promise to always agree though. ;D
But this is an interesting subject so I'll give my view on this.

Actually I toned down the vocals in the last mix because I thought that they were too loud after mastering it.
I know it's modern to have the vocals really upfront. But I'm not really a big fan of that way of mixing. I like the vocals to be part of the whole arrangement and still stay intelligible. So in essence I do not believe in "everything else is there to present the vocals". I hear a lot of songs nowadays where the only interesting part in a song is the vox. The rest of the arrangement is wallpaper. My philosophy is different maybe.

I've played the song on different systems and I thought the balance was ok on all of them.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks

Martin

I hear what you are saying..and I can hear it in the song, too.

..as I said, I did not mean to level a criticism..it is exceptional work, and difficult to describe the subtlety of difference I intended.

I understand what you mean about the wallpaper, I agree..that would be in the extreme beyond my intent here..not so much intelligible or not, but do I have to be reaching a little at some points?

Wyatt

Hi Wyatt

I have no problem with your remarks let that be clear.
I just felt I could explain there is a kind of deliberate intention behind it.
If that makes sense. ;D

Yes..makes sense.

Hey Martin! Yeah, I like early Joe music as well. This is great. Really very good. I can't hear anything that doesn't work. The comp is impeccable, and the mood is fantastic. Great sound from both guitars. Top notch all around.

Gotta chime in on the dicussion you and Wyatt were having on how vocals sit in the mix. Personally, I wouldn't want them any louder than they are currently. But, I come from a different perspective (old I guess ;)) than what is the current tendencies. There is so much done in a good comp with the instruments. The vox for sure IMO shoud be the focal point, but it doesn't need to be omni or over-present to work well. Of course, some of it is also genre specific. My attitude would be a little different if we were talking about country music and to a lesser degree, pop. But my personal preferences have me enjoying music that has a "group" focus. If I'm just interested in listening to the star quality of the lead singer, the vocal meloddy of the tune, and the "accompanying" chord structure of the tune, well, that's also different.

I think you did a great job in this tune letting all the instruments in the comp work well.

Interesting discussion.
I had about the same remarks on the short version of the 'Vieux Moulin', where some people loved the mix and other hate it
It seems to be very hard to make a mix with lyrics that are important in a song and still give the instruments some credit.

I also find the tune great from every point of view. Composition, performance and recording/mixing are superb. If I wanted to find something to criticize that'd be a matter of strict personal preferences in style: the vocal harmonies, although perfect on their own, are taking the tune to a slightly different (lighter and more polished)  direction-mood compared to what the reverbed electric suggests. I know nothing about Joe's solo work but the tune has that expensive-hitech-70s sound.

Congrats and don't pay attention to my silly stylistic objections. I could never write or record tunes like this ;)

Hi Fred

Thanks for the spin and glad you like it.

About the vocals: I sometimes dislike hearing songs where the vocals are way too loud in the mix. But then I'm talking about pop/rock stuff. Other genres are maybe a different story as you point out as well.
Wyatt was only talking about a subtle change that could be made and I understand what he meant.

Thanks for the kind words Zeoy.

I know what you're getting at with the harmonies. I'm a sucker for harmonies I guess. And my vocals are usually kinda polished as well. If someone else would sing it with a more edgy voice it would be different in style.

Yeah, but its the key for me, Rony (speaking from a personal preference and perspective ;)). IMO its about the song, and the vocals and instruments make up the song....the total composition. When we try to seperate them, we lose something in the comp, unless of course, the intent is one way or another. And lots of tunes are just that...a story done with vocals and supporting music. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I enjoy that type of tune as well. Also, as you know, there's a long history of differing intent...opera as opposed to a piece made for symphony for example. Its all good!!

Martin, I guess I didn't quite understand what Wyatt was getting at. That's ok though, cause I can't sing anyway  ;) ;D

Thanks Fred,

I seem to have caused some confusion here. So thank you for saying that..

I have been watching this, and I have been thinking I really should have quantified my original statement..it's amazing to me how words don't mean exactly the same thing to everyone, and I obviously have some things to learn about this medium ;D

So for the sake of clarity here, first let me quote from my original post:


Second, I better explain a little about my own unavoidable prejudice:

By now I should have just gone out to pasture quietly, but nonetheless, I still evaluate audio for distribution and public consumtion. I am no golden ears, lol..but I do listen from the customers prospective..and I would not have caused any misunderstandings here, if I had been able to post something for folks to A/B.

When I use the word subtle, I'm talking about taking like a decibel from the loudest instrument track and adding a decibel to the vocal, and see what that sounds like for starters..you don't know what that will do till you try it and fiddle around, so I didn't want to make a cut and dried statement like that..and based on message traffic since, I obviously communicated poorly.

..you see the engineers and the artists have all spent years honing their ability to hear..the customer hasn't..and my personal prejudice here is that I think Martin sings so danged beautiful that I want to hear him..when a man has something to say, and says it with the voice of an angel, I want the listener to know it..Now before I start a brouhaha over crass commercialism..NO NO NO..I'm not saying that we should not have artists who live in the rarified atmosphere..far from it..we need artists to show us things we never saw before..all I'm describing here is my personal bias..for y'alls understanding. I really am trying to get over it, but at my age, it aint likely.

If this was not such an absolute freaking masterpiece, cr@p I woulda never said anything but 'attaboy'..this song is so hot I thought to myself, if this guy would be a little more bold and put *himself* out there vocally, once upon a time I coulda sold a million of *him*..you don't sell music..you sell an experience that you can keep..you sell a piece of the artist..JMPO.

Meantime..my music for me I have kept it a hobby, because I understand full well, that commercialization can destroy creative freedom..been there and done that..heck, if my musical ability was half of what Martins is, I'd a been famous twice!

Now just in case I have muddied this whole thing up a second time, apologies in advance.

@kara..before I forget..
I think you really hit the nerve center of something here..something we could all benefit from an in depth discussion of..but I don't want to hijack Martins thread..haha..I did enough damage here already.  ;D

Like the man once said,  "What was I thinkin!"

Peace,

Wyatt

Yeah, me either, I prefer just to hijack Martin now and then ;) ;D

Actually, Wyatt, I'm just an old fart who likes to opinionate now and then....sometimes opening my mouth just to change feet  ::)   

Very interesting, and yes perhaps we should start a new treath in general discussion to talk about mixing techniques.

Just one remark or rather a question, since we all do our proper productions and trying to mix as good as we can, don't we contentrate to much on technique and not enough about art (=music) ?
Perhaps the mass of people don't realy care, they just love the song ...  8)

..lol..I hear that..I try to remember to take my boots off on the porch. ;D

I think you are onto something. I would be very interested to hear how we different ones of us think about our music. I think we could be important to each other by sharing our outlook.

Wyatt