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folderol
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2011, 05:50:25 PM »

This underlines one of the best things about KM - collaborations. It is great to hear the best from two (or more) people combined like this.

The only slight criticism I'd make is that the vocal lead shold be more forward, especially in the early part of the song.

Still, thanks both of you for a very enjoyable listen... or three Smiley
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If you have a poem, I have a tune, and we exchange these, we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
- Will
elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2011, 06:56:05 PM »

Thank you,Will! Cool


-Thom
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« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2011, 07:04:20 PM »

Scott,

A smooth performance in your vocals,though a bit soft & low key,but your falsetto abilities are just what this cover needed. Cool I particularly like the vocal backing tracks you added-of which I left out,as my falsetto leaves a lot to be desired.

Thom, Just to be clear, there's no falsetto used anywhere on these vocal tracks.  I think perhaps you don't understand what falsetto is, or don't quite know how to identify it.  I'm getting underneath the breath and singing full voice throughout.  I'm singing high notes, yes, I'm singing softly, yes, but no falsetto was used.  You would be able to do it too, as you got to these notes full voiced just fine--but as Azell said, you need to relax your throat and mouth and breath correctly.  Easier said than done, as those two things alone make up about 90% of vocal instruction.

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For the most part,the vocals tracks are overpowered by the music,which is one of the aspects of this recording I would like to change.

Yeah.. I went back and forth on it.  I actually had the vocal more forward in the mix just before I sent it, but then decided it was too much.  I think I'm second guessing myself too much just because another person's work is involved.  I didn't want to overpower your music production.

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I'd really like to know what equipment your using-as judging by your website,you seem to have sufficient funding for high end gear.

You are incorrect.  Smiley  My equipment is nothing special, and I can't really afford anything special either.  I'm just a working class Joe with a mortgage and a wife and like most of us, I do music as a hobby.

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Getting back to the cover at hand,I would like to create a duet,whereby I would combine both of our vocals together,to give this tune a broader,more lush quality to it...sound like a plan?

Sure.  Smiley  Will send you the stems today.  Do with them what you will.

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On a side note...there's one thing I am really curious about,which is,why pitch correction?The reason I ask,is that you have such a skilled voice...so how does this necessitate the use of such a function?  Etc...

I'm not sure it's a good idea for me to get wrapped up in this discussion, we seem to fundamentally disagree and debate is not why I came to Kara-Moon, but....
 
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The absence of pitch correction is something I feel very passionate about-as if you use it,you might as well be a lip-sync group like Milli Vanilli

Ouch...  Smiley  I'll leave it at this.  As a pretty decent singer, I feel I'm in a better position than most to comment about pitch correction tools.  Besides the fact that they can be used as a very cool effect in their own right (Kesha's "Tik Tok", although surely not everyone's cup of tea, has AMAZING use of pitch manipulation that far transcends just a tool to "correct singing mistakes"), they also can make a bad vocal performance passable, and a good vocal performance VERY good.  The fact is, if I'd not brought up the fact that I used it, you would have never known I used it.  And if I had used the non-pitch corrected vocal in the mix, it would have been fine, but it wouldn't have been as good as it COULD be.  How that's different than the quantize function in correcting imperfect timing, or MIDI instruments for creating music that compliments the playing of your own instrument, or using apeggiators to create musical patterns that you yourself are not capable of playing, or any other studio tool for that matter I'll never understand, but as you say, to each their own.  Smiley

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Thanks again,for you accolades towards my instrumentation & vocals. Cool

And thanks, again, for letting me contribute to your tracks.  Smiley

Scott
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offthewall
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« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2011, 09:21:51 PM »

 
It's been a great privilege to listen to the development of this piece.
It is absolutely superb.
That combination of Thom's wonderful talent at musical production and Scott's perfect vocal just make me glad that I am part of this 'best music forum on the web'.
 wOO

More.

 Wink
James
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elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2011, 09:31:45 PM »

Scott,

You're right,I don't know how to identify falsetto,as I have been made aware of that now,my bad. Embarrassed I call it as I hear it and that's what it sounded like to me...as I had said,I have no formal instruction whatsoever,so I just go by ear,as it is all I have to go on.

As far as debates go,I don't think there's anything wrong with debating,as long as it's friendly and this is after all,a music discussion board.
However though,if my honesty towards pitch correction is offensive to you,then I apologize.

Just to clarify,I do know how natural sounding & sophisticated pitch correction can be-as there is a member on this forum that has used it for his voice and he used the correction quite extensively.
It was astonishingly natural & thoroughly convincing-but be that as it is,there is just something extremely personal & distinctive about the human voice...sort of a way of identifying who one's self truly is and I just can't bring myself to alter it in that particular way(if that makes any sense to you).

The only effects on my voice that I personally care to use,are effects like reverb,voice-doubling & the like.I just enjoy discussing such subjects,& I ask purely out of curiosity.

I'll cease inciting such topics in the future,as I don't want to risk the possibility of any discord on this forum.This is a very friendly forum in general,but I think I made an error in judgement,regarding discussing such topics in depth with you,since we don't know each well yet.

As for the equipment thing & your situation...well...that's pretty much the case for everyone on this forum-including me,as I am on a very moderate,fixed income.
Ever since my hobby became significantly more serious,I have had to scale back my lifestyle quite a bit, since I stopped working part time,to supplement my disability income.
This included selling my car,quitting my gym membership,eliminating dining out & being very frugal with my grocery budget.My priorities are different though,as I have no wife,I've given up on dating....so music is the biggest thing in my life and I devote most of my time to it.

I have these discussions with you because I enjoy conversing with you here,but if I ever step on your toes again,please feel free to let me know.


-Thom

« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 09:34:37 PM by elwoodblues1969 » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2011, 09:53:02 PM »

More later everyone, as I am working today and I really need to get back to it!  You people are too distracting!

I did want to say, no worries to Thom. I'll explain more about my viewpoint later.  It really is innocuous, and I think we're all on the same page.

Finally, I also wanted to add an offer for a second vocal take on the main vocal, Thom, if you wanted it for voice doubling.  If you want to use your vocal instaed that's TOTALLY cool.  Just thought I'd offer if you wanted it.  Let me know.

Scott
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elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2011, 12:59:28 AM »

Scott,

I was anxious to get the duet version done,of which I have,already. Grin With some EQ and some very meticulous editing in various segments of your main vocal track,I've managed to regulate the variances in volume of your track,as well as bring your voice more forward into the mix.

I made my best effort to have both of our vocals present-equally,so that neither overpowers the other....I hope you like it.


-Thom

* Time(duet)192kbps.mp3 (7065.95 KB - downloaded 352 times.)
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Azell
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« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2011, 10:30:46 AM »

@ Thom & Scott
Ouf, vous m'avez fait peur! J'ai cru à l'incident diplomatique! Heureusement, la musique est là pour adoucir la vie, pas pour la compliquer. Je trouve votre collaboration très enrichissante. Dommage que je ne puisse pas y participer... Continuez vers le meilleur.

Phew, you gave me a fright! I thought it was a diplomatic incident! Fortunately, music is there to softening life, not complicate it. I find your work very enriching. Too bad I can not participate ... Continue to the best.
Azell
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Oren
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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2011, 05:04:08 AM »

I made my best effort to have both of our vocals present-equally,so that neither overpowers the other....I hope you like it.
First rate maneuver, gentlemen - all three versions, both technically and as artistic expression. Afro

Regarding pitch-correction, I think of it as one more vocal effect. Some purists even feel it is a crime to apply equalization, compression,  reverb or chorus to a vocal recording.
My own inclination is to use each audio effect with restraint - even pitch correction - to provide the listener with the desired vocal presentation. It is likely more a matter of taste than "what's best".

The question of "falsetto" is an interesting point, in that a series of pop singers - Frankie Valli of the "Four Seasons", The BeeGees, Jon Anderson of "Yes", to name a few - pushed the definitions of male vocal performance into a whole new zone. Traditional terms are no longer adequate to describe the vocal free-for-all that began in the late 20th century. Thom's "power-pop" approach would once have been called "bel canto", but his performance certainly isn't opera! I would have called much of Scott's performance "falsetto", but technically, it is not. Perhaps it is time for some new terminology...?
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Marc JX8P
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« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2011, 08:59:57 AM »

First of - I'm a really, really big fan of The Alan Parsons Project, specifically Alan Parsons' amazing mixing and arranging talents and Eric Woolfsons stunning songs and his singing. So it was with some trepidation that I finally listened to this song which is one of the more difficult ones to get right, although it might seem simple. I was fortunate to catch Alan Parsons band live last year and to hear some of these classics played live.

Thom, your arrangement and choice of sounds is spot-on. Really excellent work! I do have difficulty with your voice here - not because you don't do a great performance which you really do, but for me it just doesn't fit the song. Maybe I'm too stuck to the original. I really love Scotts vocals on here which are amazing (again Smiley ) and together with the instrumentation capture that dreamy quality of the original (though the vocals are a bit soft in Scotts mix, as I believe was mentioned before). I do like the duet version as well, but the timing of both your vocals is too much off, especially at the protracted notes at the end of some words.

In the end, masterful. Really enjoyed this!
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elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2011, 02:08:20 PM »

Thanks gentlemen,for all of your comments & input. Smiley


-Thom
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offthewall
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« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2011, 03:41:24 PM »

 Kiss
A truly beautiful duet, chaps.  wOO

 Wink
James
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elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2011, 11:41:06 PM »

Thanks James. Cool


-Thom
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magmavander
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« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2011, 05:22:38 PM »

Kiss
A truly beautiful duet, chaps.  wOO

 Wink
James
+1
Wonderful  Cool
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Frenchy but chic
elwoodblues1969
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« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2011, 10:58:34 PM »

Thanks Mag! Cool


-Thom
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