A track by Oren and Marc JX8P

[folderol]

This is a really enjoyable track. Thanks guys an excellent collaboration as it stands!

Incidentally, my limited experience is that (especially at low bitrates) oggs have less of that curious phasing effect you sometimes get on high frequences such as cymballs etc.

[Marc JX8P]

Heh, that might explain why I don't notice it that much; I love putting a slight phaser effect on hi hats to liven those parts up!

[Wyatt]

Hmm..I think I posed a couple of screenshots a while back..showing a spectral frequency display of .ogg vs. mp3.

It shows that while they are both the same amplitude, the .ogg file has more actual frequency content. The .ogg file actually looks better, too..fuller and smoother.

Wyatt

[rharv]

I personally think there is more 'crosstalk' in OGG, causing midrange oscillations..small but detectable. Something causes it to have a certain sound..

[elwoodblues1969]

I looked at the website that offers the conversion briefly,& it seems there's a couple different downloads to choose from & I'm assuming that there is probably a version that is more appropriate for my operating system...not sure what direction to go to?

If ogg has better sound quality,then companies should start manufacturing portable ogg players-instead of mp3's!

Thom

[Oren]

When I became aware of the open-source phenomenon, and the community of resourceful individuals who develop/support the software , Ogg Vorbis was one of the first items that caught my attention. Because the concept of a constantly evolving array of software tools developed "by musicians for musicians" in a freely interactive setting suits my personal inclinations, I tend to promote the idea, and support its continued activity.

The question of whether Ogg Vorbis is better or inferior to MP3 has been examined by a lot of capable audio enthusiasts, with no definitive conclusion reached, partly due to the fact that there are several versions of MP3 (Fraunhofer, LAME, etc.) and also due to the fact that Ogg Vorbis is in a constant state of development.

To my ear, they are just different, and it's a matter of personal taste which one suits the listener. In North America, we are more accustomed to MP3, so it would likely sound "better" to us. Europeans, with more exposure to Ogg Vorbis, would be inclined to prefer its particular qualities.

My own position is that I'll support/promote the Ogg Vorbis format whenever possible, with the idea in mind that with continued support, it will gradually evolve to the point where it will provide a demonstrably superior listening experience.

(and Thom, I use the LAME codecs for both MP3 and Ogg Vorbis encoding/decoding)

http://winlame.sourceforge.net/

Oren.

[Moon]

If ogg has better sound quality,then companies should start manufacturing portable ogg players-instead of mp3's!

Yeah.... well... I remember 15 years ago that OS2 was much better than Windows... So what happened? Well... it's always the product with the better marketing that's winning. So I'm not sure if we'll see portable ogg players...  but I probaly would get one ! 

Moon

[Marc JX8P]

I believe that a number of portable players already support it, along with wma and such. But like I said in my last mail, after I installed the codecs I mentioned (which is a simple installer) I just play them back in windows like any other mp3 so working with it is easy enough now.

[Oren]

Yes Marc,
I used the installer you recommended in this thread to upgrade Windows Media Player a few months ago when Bob (rharv) mentioned it. Works very well, and simplifies playback.

[rharv]

I was not trying to imply mp3 was better than ogg. They both have their points both good and bad.  It would be nice f ogg kept improving, but LAME is also sourceware, Oren.  At least they claim it is.

[Wyatt]

I personally think there is more 'crosstalk' in OGG, causing midrange oscillations..small but detectable. Something causes it to have a certain sound..

Hi Bob,

..if you say so, I take your word for it..in a heartbeat.

I can't hear the difference..but I see a difference..

I can't hear the difference between 24/96 and 16/44 either....so I stick to CD redbook.

I don't have a dog in this fight..but just an observation:

Isn't it weird, that now that such high quality audio is so available to even us peons..
.. that the fastest growing profit sector in the music business is mp3...Yikes!!
Is there something wrong with this picture??

Ahh the 21st century..where style finally triumphs over substance.   

Wyatt

[Oren]

Yeah, the folks who work on the LAME project do a nice job, but sometimes it seems to me that they're tripping all over themselves trying to work around (or avoid) patent infringements.

In many ways it seems that starting from scratch (like the Ogg Vorbis crew did) is the best choice. Just go with a completely new format and never have to worry about legalities.

[Mick Emery]

Marc...thanks for putting the link for the ogg files!
I've been trying to listen, with no success, until now.

Very tasty!  The music framed Oren nicely.
I also agree, the parts @ :50 & on, were right on.
Also some nice overtones on guitar.
Good listening.

Mick

[Fred S]

Occasionally .ogg works better than MP3 for collabs. Some sequencers have trouble lining up MP3's correctly from the beginning of the project.

[rharv]

Fred's point is a deciding factor, actually.
Mp3 codecs do throw off the initial start time; it's documented.
LAME attempts to compensate for it by averaging their test results...but you can imagine how exact that is after a few different codecs and generations become involved in a collb project!

Precisely why I like .ape- perfect copies every time I used it.
Hopefully these other formats will work as well.