Kara-Moon Forum

The story goes that McCartney "ghosted" Chuck Berry's "Back in the U.S.A." and the Beach Boys' "California Girls" to come up with "Back in the U.S.S.R", so here is a proposal that we conjure up something of our own at K-M to take the song one step further...

Ed (manning) suggested a live drummer, but until we find one, I'll have a go at some percussion from "Hydrogen"....

we need a drummer here, the only musician we don't have  :-\

k

 ???   8)

I hate to say how stuck for time I am at the moment .... but I'm severely interested in this one  :-\

I just recently got Jamstix and haven't had a chance to try it out properly yet.

Gimme a BPM and a rough backing track and I'll see what this drummer can conjure up from it  :o
This is supposed to be the type of situation to put him to the test.  :-X

 ;)
James

This sounds interesting, but I can't think what direction it can be taken :o

oren..
if it would help you i could look up what bpm i used for that ruff
in the booze thread. i'm not at my daw right now..
but will look it up if you wish mate.
i'm sure you can tell anyway. twas pretty fast if i remember.

what you could do i guess is lay it out in hydrogen as you say..
then if your lucky to find a real drummer have him play over the top
of everything later on mate like we used to do years ago in studios.
ie..get the bed guides down first etc etc the bring in the session blokes.  
ive heard there are various good drummers on the net that
will contribute for fun if asked mate.
might be another option.
god bless.
ed.
ps,,,offthewall...ive heard great stuff done with jamstyx.
particularly the newer extension packs.

Based upon the video, I got 76 beats per minute.

Here is a brief clip of a basic drum pattern from Hydrogen at that tempo... (I've given the song a working title - "Going Back")

oren.
i just looked up my project.
153 bpm. so halved is bout the same.
what was confuseing was on the you toob are various vids live.
some..the song is done faster , and some slower.
so sounds right to me mate.
i listened to your drum beat.
for a fast rocker might i suggest the following. ??

takeing 76 bpm.and 8 beats in a bar..
 hi hat for motion //speed illusion
8 in a bar perhaps. or 4 ?. kik on first beat.
and possibly fifth.
dont want a machine gun effect of course...
but i'm just thinkin of fast drums. to get the notion of speed
for a rocker ??
difficult without hearing like what i hear in my stoopid head..lol.
feel free to slam the idea.

Oren,
I got your 76.

Jamstix likes to work on 'jamming along' to some audio.
If you can play me a guitar chord sequence for the song (without drums), at that tempo, I'll plug it in and see what comes out the other end.    :-\

 ;)
James

Most percussion sequencers will function better under these circumstances at double the rate I used: 152 b.p.m.
 Jamstix would likely benefit from using the larger number...

Ed,
Shall we see what Jamstix comes up with? Theoretically, if the instrumental track it is following is "busy" enough, the resulting percussion will be appropriately lively.

James,
I'll have a go at an arrangement and some rhythm guitar for your drum program to follow. Give me a few days to get the track rock-solid, so Jamstix has something substantial to track with....

Is everybody OK with a few chord variations to give the song a bit of originality?

Alternatively, we could see how Jamstix performs using Ed's 153 b.p.m. finished track, posted as Ogg Vorbis, so the timing is exact...

 :-X
Either way suits me .... it being all very experimental  8)

I haven't really had time to try things out, but I think that so long as I have a strict bpm with some audio action (no drums) then we should be cookin'
 8)

 ;)
James

chaps.
sure i'm easy useing jamstix mates.
what i'm hearing in my silly brain is what we use to call a "pounder"
of a drum track...very danceable but not electronic genre...
more like a classic rok genre. (my biases showing..lol.)  
i hear these big drums pounding a start off,(live it would be audience clapping along..) then gradually each instrument comes in...
so drum pounds on start off, bass comes in with a cute bass line,
then rhythm followed by a hooky lead , then finally whole band shebang with vocs.
used to call it the las vegas intro. its an old trik of course.
idea is to build "tension" at the start of the song.
if you listen to old acdc or cheap trik stuff they used ta do this sometimes.
drums on their own pounding at the song begin.
for example drums pound a start off , the old 1234..then bass
boons around an E or a G or other note or whatever..motif sorta idea then other phased instruments come in.
fast..ba ba boom baba boom ba ba boom..
then basss...doo de doo , doo de doo fast..then rhythm doo de doo doode doo with
bass etc etc...then the old lead geetar trik...sliding down then power chords motif etc..then finally vocs. its all dynamics n tension in the classic songs eh ??
n hitting the punters with hot memorable liks right at the beginning of the song to
generate punter interest.
just some ideas. feel free to slam me..lol.
cos we are all mates here.

ps..the word "beach " was mentioned ..sorta gave me some lyric ideas.
song name.."rockin at the beach".
verse 1.
scream..i'm rockin at the beach...
aint nothin i wanna learn from the teach.
so i skipped out for the day ,
n gonna rock it hard on the beach in the bay.
verse 2.
were gonna set up on the sand..the same old band..
use some old lyrics from the bard..
translated to modern times..
yeh we're gonna make it rhyme n rok it hard.
chorus..
were gonna kiss all the girls at the beach.
they'll scream n scream n if were lucky we;ll get a peak.
amps on ten we'll stun em with sound..
n everyone'll party from miles around.
verse 3.
we invite you to come along.
have some fun n sing a song ..
bring yer girlfriends and yer wives , get a nice tan ..
while we rock it live..
out on the beach under the sun..
just rockin hard n haveing fun.
chorus.
verse 4.
we might play it wrong if you buy us some beer..
n if we kiss yer girlfriend have no fear..
we're only in it for the fun..
playing live under the sun.
our only mission is to entertain..
and play some rock again n again.
so come along one and all...
lets have a party n rock n roll.  

)just some daft lyric off the cuff  ideas..lol.)

Cool! We got some lyric action... :-

...and a blow-by-blow instructional on how to introduce a proper rock and roll number...
...we're officially in business :;

Oren
well i dont know if the lyrics are junk..
they were done off the cuff in a few minutes.
once we had a bed trak going , if ok with other folks i could refine the lyrics..
n see what i come up with if thats ok ??  
another idea i had for the song..an old trik a la the old surf records..
drums come in at start alone...then a few bars later as i mentioned
bass riffing around an A for example..then like on the old classics..
splang ..lol..guitar chord stroke in Aminor sorta like a engine revving up idea.
splang, splang,splang,splang..then lead guitar intro motif/hook...
then finally whole band with vocs.
its just  songwriting triks.

i'll share something..prolly you fine people know the gig.
what makes a great song ??
to quote a LA AE who helped me once..a great pounding beat..
n at least 3 memorable hooks/liks in the song.
all catering to user psychology...n snagging the user..
viz..hit em hard at song begin with a great hook,
then in middle of song, n hit em again at outtro to make
em wanna play the song again.
ive not met many , just a few big names who made it..
but each one re iterated the importance of the above 3 hook approach.

good chaps.
i wish i had the gear i once had..but i dont ..
so this ruff mp3..just example of splang lol..
n the vegas phased intro idea.
after the final splang then i hear in my head
simple lead hook motif ..single picked notes a la the old surf records..
then finally the vocs come i n whole band.
withn your ok...if you want me to go further with the example.
cos ya might think its a crap intro idea //the vegas intro idea.
gimme yer feedback as to whether idea is junk.
going for breakfast..wifey cookin up a storm n me belly
is empty..lol. will check back in a few hrs.
god bless.

Yep i had my feet tapping from the second measure 8)

k
 

Kara.
yep...if its gonna be done its gotta be a toe tapper.
with lotsa hooks everywhere.

Here is a rhythm guitar track with some drum action to count it in. It's based on Ed's arrangement, but with the tempo adjusted to an even 152 beats per minute.

Sound rock steady to me...

k

 8)
Here is my first attempt with Jamstix.
Using a basic drummer and just letting him do his thing with NO tweaking.

See if this can work and I will try to find time to do a bass part tomorrow.  ::)

 ;)
James

i got a question..
in this new version ie beach.. are we gonna come up with a new chord structure ??
i'm just a bit confused.
if you chaps want...i could use the lyrics i posted up thread
for beach and try a vocal plus arrange ??
do ya want me to av a bash at that ??
useing offthewalls trak ?? as a basis ??
the other aspect is..if its bout a band partying on the beach n
haveing fun we gotta make it surfing like ??

just a suggestion..but how bout this idea ??
to flush the shebang out..we sorta do a demo version ruff ,
then go to town on a final once all the kinks are sorted ??

this is weird..i dont see the post i just made..
unless i clik the reply button ...is it gremlins ??

It's there, pilgrim... ;D

This is my second collaboration with a Jamstix drum track, and the program tends to play behind the beat and generate fills at odd places.
The creators of Jamstix recommend it as a practice tool. To function as a recorded drum track, it needs to be nudged forward to get it on the beat, and some copy-cut-paste action applied to get the "fills" located more advantageously.

James - would you generate two more instances of the same track with different drummers, so we have a selection of "feels" to work with?

Surf one out to us, Ed -  based on James' drum action, and that abbreviated chord pattern I posted. Let's play with this a bit, shall we...? :)

now i see my replies..highly weird..lol..
could i have the otwalls drums on their own
so i can experiment ?? this coming week ??
i got orens geetar , could i have also otwalls geetar on its own also ??
that way if ok with you chaps i can boon around with the vocs n
try different things.//arrangements with both ??
will check back monday morning.
i have kept tuesday thru thursday this week free
for trying different things with the vocs.
(but got family stuff monday. but will try n squeeze in time then too.)

Propably due to latency of the plugin...


You could build the practice track with a 4 bar straight beat and then put in the fills after the lyrics are done ?

k

Exactly! 8)
 All we need is the Jamstix track - then, we slice and dice to build a finished percussion track that is on the beat and co-ordinates with our arrangement.
Not so difficult... ;D

 ???
Too busy round here !!!!!

I'll try and get something to you within the next 24 (hopefully hours, not days)  :-X

 ;)
James

 :P Phew .....  8)

Here are a few selections.

To clarify one point. I don't think the timing issue is one of latency. There is a facility in JS, as part of the 'feel' section, called 'pocket'. You adjust a slider forward or back to achieve that before or after the beat feel. The default for quite a few of the drummer styles is before the beat.
I have attempted to set each of these examples as close as I can (quickly).

They are each recorded along with Oren's rhythm guitar track so I have included his initial count-in beats.

Oren ... can you give me (to save some time) your chord structure and I will see if I can make time for a bass part.  :-*

 ;)
James
first two drummers.

 ::)
and the next two drummers .....

 ;)
James

Here is James' Jamstix drumcraft O0, tweaked to pound away right on the beat, and reinforced by a tacky little metronome track. I think you'll find it sufficiently vigorous to push the song right along.

The simple 125bpm beat buried behind his drums is a common studio trick, and gives the track a more definite presence in the mix. It will not be audible to the listener when mixed with the other instruments. Have a listen, and let me know if it works for you.
We can slice and dice this puppy if we want to make the song longer, but as it is, it matches Ed's original arrangement.

James - zee chords: verse-ADCD,ADCD,ACD,AE chorus-DA,DEF,AE

...oh, and would some one who can actually play rhythm guitar have a go at this, por favor...? ::)

i gotta watch my downloads mates.
please tell me what dloads of the files posted
i should try vocs with ??
i just need help to know what files i need to use to sing against.
ideally drums on their own n a geetar trak on its own.
that way also i might come up with other geetar ideas also.

You know, and I don't wanna be picky, after all it is your song, but....
I somehow prefer the beat, manning posted in the very first version, it is a bit more in the style of those songs and a bit more feet tapping.
Could be me of course.....

k
 

Ed,
These two posts contain a rhythm guitar track, and a percussion track. They'll get you sorted.

http://www.kara-moon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5615.msg33240#msg33240

http://www.kara-moon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5615.msg33265#msg33265

oren..
cheers mate for the file links.
going off to try some vocs now.

kara..
yeh i just tried to keep the original drums simple
in the hope of mebe we might use a live drummer later.
but lets see where this goes.
off to do vocs. gonna be busy.

Kara,
That's the beauty of this collaboration experience - even if you're not contributing a part, comments and suggestions are always helpful. 8)

We can follow through on James' drum action, and if it really doesn't work after all, we can create another one. No worries... :-*

oren//everyone.
i downloaded the geetar trak n drums.
i guess i didnt realise we were gonna use exactly the same chord structure in this effort,
n honestly i dont want anyone irked at me..last thing i want in fact..
cos all i want is happy n fun.
but i was hoping we would keep the tempo n come up with
a brand new chord structure.

honestly mates , i dont want anyone pooped at me..
i just feel we need a brand new chord structure.

so what ive done ( n its ultra ruff n yer gonna have to hear thru
the quik ruff recording ) is attach an mp3 idea for a brand new
chord structure.
song name is ..Rockin in Malibu.
concept is a band rockin out under the sun.
as you can see i tried to put in some "hooks" ..
eg the vocal hook "in malibu" etc..
whether i was successfull i dunno.
twas just a quikie idea to see if you good folks hated it.
n frankly the vocs suck cos twas done so quik,.

the idea is a band rockin out on the beach in malibu..lol.
be as critical as you wish.

if you hate it then i feel we need some other new
chord arrangement.
if however you feel it has some merit to do properly...
then i'll be happy to extend the arrangement for full 3 minutes  
n post the full arrange for your critique.
what i foresee is at the end of the mp3 attached after the downward
lick another verse n chorus (mebe in a pushed up key)
then a wild guitar outtro mebe ??

anyhoo..gimme yer feedback bad or otherwise mates.
i was just trying to come up with an alternate chord structure.
god bless.
ed..(honestly hoping ive not irked anyone.)

 :o
First ....

here is a mix of Oren's latest with bass.

 ;)
James

 8)
and the bass on it's own

 ;)
James

 :;
and here is Ed's 'Malibu' with bass

 ;)
James

offthewall  
lets see what oren says bout the malibu idea ??.
whether crap or whatever.
n the mp3 i posted. n see if he likes the chord arrange on malibu.
i like what you did on malibu mate.
i'd be curious on any opinions on malibu ..
how did you feel bout it  when doing the bass ??
did you feel it was a viable chord arrange/song idea
for us all to do instead of the original chord structure..??

I love the Malibu idea, rock solid beach groove  8)

k

I love the Malibu idea also.

Just wondering how would some heavy reverb surf rhythms and leads , think *** Dale type, fit?

chaps/mario.
thanks for the comments.
but i would like to hear from oren..
cos i was really very very worried if the malibu idea might miff him.
n i didnt want that as its his thread.
as i said i just want everyone to be happy n have fun.
but..if everyones in agreement includeing oren with
the malibu idea then i would be happy to finish off the arrange
and post the full malibu arrange demo.
i would need a day or so .
THEN useing the  arrange we all redo the whole thing properly
from bottom up.

mario..i agree heartily bout the dale comment n the surf sounds.
my lead for example was just a place holder mate.

the current mp3 example of malibu goes to 2minutes 20 secs.
if everyones in agreement to finalise the arrange after 2m20secs
i hear one more voc verse then a nice (yes mario..dale type)
outtro which should wrap up the thing nicely.

anyhoo if everyones in agreement includeing oren..i'll finalise the
arrange for critique going to prolly 3mins 30 secs.
then you good chaps can critique the lyrics n arrangement or anything
n we can refine the lyrics/arrange till we are all happy.
fair ??
its the same method as big boy studios work..
step 1.. do a ruff demo.
step 2..redo the song properly etc with the right sound picture n
n instrumentation etc etc.

by the way as some seem to like my drum trak , i'll be happy to upload it
so people can use it as a basic clik trak or whatever in their project.
totally agree mario btw. it needs to be a kik  A**..lol... surf sounding song. 

god bless.

Sounds good to me!

Lovely - go! :-

Oren/all.
Oren ..very  kind of you mate.
your a great bloke.

okey dokey i'll work like a piglet tomorrow..
thursday n finish the arrange ruff vocs next verse n outtro  etc
makeing the song around
3min 25 secs or so in length.
n then upload for critique of lyrics n arrangement.
any leads will be just place holders.
cos i'm no great lead geetar player.
n whole thing will be redone anyhoo with marios surf/dale ideas
once everyone is happy with ruff arrange.

so gimme a day, n let me finish arrange for whole thing.
god bless.

chaps.
ok...have at me...
be as critical as you wish.
full ruff demo arrange for malibu attached.
3minutes 40 secs in length.
note..from 2 minutes 55 secs to 3 minutes 18 secs
is where the second lead will be..the outtro lead..
before vocal chorus comes in at end.
i didnt put in the lead cos it would just be a place holder anyway to be
re done. n a fresh lead idea a la dale style is needed anyway.
n i have a bit of arthritis in my hand today.
(the first lead i did put in is just a place holder also..
to be replaced a la dale style.)
anyhoo please critique ruff arrange n lyrics etc.
god bless.

I just feel that this will be good  8)

k

A winner! Let's run with this - nice work, Ed... :;

 8)
OK,
here is a quick mix with bass,

and the bass line on it's own for mixing in.

As you didn't put in any sort of count-in I have made this 'EXACTLY' the same length as the mp3 file that you submitted (Ed)

 ;)
James

chaps.
sorry bout the count in..(actually there is one..)
no count in cos i wasnt anticipating folks would record traks useing the mp3
which is just a v ruff guide arrange. nothin more n that.
cos step 2 rebuild from scratch gotta be done.
n we gotta work out loads of details. 
unless i gradually build the mix here from peoples contribs.
but would prefer someone do the mixing who has good monitoring...cos my monitoring suks as i cant afford the big studio stuff i once had.

offthewall.
re bass..yep the bass arrange is vital of course.
one can play it many ways of course..walking it ,
or b b b b on a note etc. or a combo of approaches..
i suspect a combo will work.
there are places i hear the b b b  on same note mate.
to give the idea of "motion".

i "know" its sometimes boring to do that for a bass player.
i really really like what you did in the second lead area .
if you notice i put in likkle slides.
instead of doin the slide lower eg at begin ..
n other places.
how bout trying trying the bass slide downs mate an octave higher mate ??
as in "wheeeee"...lol..to communicate fun.

places i hear high bass slide down are as follows mate.
5 secs, (here is vital as in I'm a happy bass...wheeee.
conveying idea of fun.)
after that 5 secs slide i hear on bass..motion...
(b b b b etc on same note to convey motion withn the beat,
till vocs start n to get the punters danceing.)
42 secs...high bass slide down..as in "wow".
1min13secs...another bass slide.
2 mins..another slide.
(ps..2mins 15 secs that note you did high..SUPERB MATE.
NICE rumble at 2mins37/8 secs mate.) )
3mins 18/19 secs..another bass slide.
the basic concept of the slides n conjunction with geetar slides
at same time point...
when final version is done is to make it all seem "fun".
and create a "hook" or sound picture.
please feel free mate to say ed...i dont like that idea etc etc.
daft idea..lol.
god bless.




 

This called for a new project executed at 153 b.p.m. :-
 For those who want to contribute, here is Ed's track with a little extra kick and snare action (for a very definite beat), and some "Honky Tonk Woman" cowbell.
 Just for convenient of tracking, I lined this up with a count-in and rendered to Ogg Vorbis for exact timing.

James,
Your bass concept is premium! Lay it down one more time with gusto, LongHair!
If the arrangement changes for any reason, down the road, we can always slice and dice the bass track accordingly. Save you a bit of work... ;D

Oren.
i got a question for you mate.
what do you have in the way of monitoring ??
reason i'm asking is...if you have great accurate monitoring prolly
if we are gonna do this song properly that you should mix it if ok with you ??
what do you have mate ?? for monitoring ??
cos my monitoring suks compared to big studio rigs i used in the past.
my monitoring is ok for ruffs/demos n booning around but not for serious final songs
if we decide to do this song seriously as a proper production
that could be played on radio etc etc.
my blinkin pension suks..lol.
so i'm stuck for monitoring gear.

 8)
Combination of my ideas and Ed's ideas.

Here is another rough mix, from Oren's latest, plus the solo bass part.

Feel free to cut and use any bits from both incarnations, to suit the mix.  ::)

 :D Great fun.

 ;)
James

James, EXCELLENT BASS. 

I was going to suggest that “sliding” surf bass guitar part be added to this.  You must have ESP!

PS - I hope to have time to add a part sometime this weekend.

I was hoping you'ld step up to the plate, Mario. We need some legitimate Beach Boys/ Ventures/ Richard Dale guitar action. and you have the chops... :-*

James,
Just what we needed, Bro... 8)

Ed,
I'd love to do a mix of this one. My monitors (for two years, now) are Cambridge SoundWorks - two tiny satellites and a sub-woofer. Inexpensive, reliable, and acoustically accurate. Did I mention inexpensive...? :D
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/cambridge-soundworks/pcworks/PRD_119259_1594crx.aspx

Oren.
re mixing.
well thats just great your wiling to do it.
i was just worried for you that its loads of work
if the song is to be done properly.
do you want some of my traks as just bed guides ruffs ??
to be deleted later ??
i was thinkin just the drums n rh geetar n guide vocs.
yeh i think we all know what we want on this ,
a jolly good song with lots of hooks n great sound picture.
whether the song works or not will depend on sound picture n hooks imho.
it might be instrumental to go listen to lots of old surf records to
"get the vibe".
gonna  listen to james bass now , gimme a mo'.

oren..
wow YES !!..the drums sound lots better.
james..
bass sits better imho.
still would like to hear much higher bass slides via
a test ie..high up on bass neck sliding down.
n see how the sound picture works.
sorry mates..your prolly gonna hate on me for keep on mentioning this..lol..
but the diff tween the great songs n the ruffs are sound picture ..its vital.
particularly in this type of song.
viz we are painters of sound pictures.  
n the hooks...which is why i did what i call the las vegas ending...
the hi vocs "in malibu" at end of song.
do you feel that ending works ??  or not ??  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lots of details need working on.
eg drums..where to put cymbal hits (chinas perhaps ?? )
and drum rolls..ie..what would a real drummer do ??
that kinda idea.
we need an action plan to rebuild the song from scratch.
any other instrumentation ?? organ ?? special surf fx ??
lets talk for a mo bout instrumentation for this n sound picture.
what are you good folks feelings ?? what do you hear
in your minds ?? cos its lots of likkle details
that are gonna make or break this effort.
also hit me up with any voc lyric changes you want
in the final step 2 version of the song.
gotta think bout that .  
god bless.
ps..james..
forgot to mention ..nice bass lick "wink"
at 48 secs mate.
and YES JAMES at 3min11secs..another nice "winker".
lovin it mates. but oodles of work to do.

 ;D
Certainly having a good bit of fun with this one.

 ::) I got to admit, however, that I ain't hardly ever had anything to do with 'surf' music. It must have passed me by at the time, hardly hitting UK much. I did learn to play Wipe Out in one of my first bands.  In fact it's a term I have only recently come across and still don't know what the trademark sounds should be. I also confess to having never heard of this Mr D Dale (who has to be carefully spelled 8) )

 :-X Still ... no matter ... it's all good clean fun.  8)

 ;)
James

OK here are my first impressions.  Feel free to use all, none or some of this. If you want more, less or something else feel free to let me know.

Attached are two files.  One I added my guitar part to the existing MP3 file.  This version has a lot of reverb on my guitar part.  The second file is my guitar part sans any effects.  I thought this would be better as whomever masters this can use their own reverb so they can better match the sounds.
Also note that I am NO *** Dale!

PS – On the A chord hold in the intro and other parts of the song – that should have some vibrato to sound more “era authentic” IMHO.

Let me know what ya think - MarioD

Ed,
Your MP3 mix is quite sufficient to guide us, I think.
Save your upload/download capacity for the more critical detail work that will doubtlessly ensue... :D

James,
If that's as close to "surf bass" as you can get, we'll roll with it. ( I missed the California phenomenon, also - too busy with Johnny Winter and the Blue addiction). Call it a "style" thing - and you certainly have yours (this is good ;)).

Mario,
Thanks for the dry guitar track. With a little luck we can conjure up some reverb and tremolo that will take it all the way to Ricky Dale territory... :o

Oren.
ok mate i'll conserve my bandwidth.
i'm sorry bout the fact i cant afford the ultra hi end isp services.
other family commitments of course like many people.

lets talk generally about the mp3 i posted.
i'm too near to it. so you folks will need to assess it in the following terms..
viz..is it a strong enough concept for a song and is the arrangement strong enough ??
this is my major concern. does it stand up ??
i wont be offended if people think it isnt strong enough.
cos to me choosing the right song concept is very important
if one is gonna do a song seriously.
also if folks can come up with a better arrangement than i with more song hooks
thats fine too.
but my major concern is..is it strong enough ??
i like it myself...but i might be wrong.

mario..
hell yeah mate..you got the vibe.
i can post a new mp3 if you wish minus my junky lead
place holder.

Ed,

It's plenty strong - our subsequent execution should take it the rest of the way home.
Your rhythm guitar tracks sound like the real thing - would you care to donate them to the cause...?... O0
                             ___________________________________________________________________________

James,

Do you feel inclined to see what Jamstix will come up with, using our full-band demo track as it's trigger? We might come up with some interesting percussion, even though there are drums in the source track...
 I'd like to go with that software if at all feasible, and perhaps supplement with some added percussion when extra dynamics seem appropriate.
 Worth a try?  :o ;D

Oren..
sure you can have any traks mate.
just rhythm ? or any others ??

Oren,
yes, I'll give it a run when I get time.

 ;)
James

Manning, I rather like your lead part.  I would keep it if it where up to me.

Oren,
I made another two drum tracks, as your suggestion.
Wikipedia says Classic surf drum kits tended to be Rogers, Ludwig, Gretsch or Slingerland, so I put in a Slingerland kit. I also found that there is a 'Surf' style. I've used this with two different drummers.
See what you think  ::)

first one

 ;)
James

second one


I'll try to get some more time later to do a bit of extra bass.

 ;)
James

chaps.
my guide rhythm as requested attached with
a bit o' drum at front for line up mates.
(delete drum line up after lining up.)

mario..
i honestly dont think my lead is powefull enough melodically.
would you mind coming up witn something better and
more memorable ??
if you listen on you tube to the old surf examples they combined
the slides with very melodic leads.

Oren,

here is an 'alternative' bass line.
I started off with the idea of matching Mario's slide parts but soon realised that this wasn't going to work.  ::)

All it was doing was creating confusion, IMHO.
So I just continued playing, in sympathy with the part that Mario was playing, and felt that it was working out better.  :-X

This is meant to be a part to use as a 'cut and dodge' ... to add some extra elements to the original, if you think it is needed.  8)

As the man said .... it's all about having fun  :-*   :;

 ;)
James

Interesting James, I did my part to try and compliment your bass part.

Also remember that as always I over play my parts so one can pick and choose what part(s) they wish to use.  I doubt very much that all of my slides will be used.

Oren mate.
when your ready could you post a ruff mp3 mix of beds
so we can step back a mo n see the forest for the trees as it were ??
really the "key" to these types of efforts is a staged /controlled
review process as the song evolves.
its sorta like building a house is how i think of songs.
a gradual process of building etc.
also i'm gonna upload another trak today just in case you need
it mate.
there are lots of things to assess.
for example among many.
1. the sound mix picture. this is what people get off on.
2. do the lyrics need refining ??.
once the beds are done ..
i'll redo the vocs, n then you good chaps can critique of course.
at this point weaknesses that worry me , a major aspect is in the
two lead break time slots i feel we need melodic memorable lead breaks in conjunction with marios lovely slides etc etc. interspersed.
feel free to disagree with anything.
also does anyone here do vocs ??
another idea..if anyone does is to add extra vocs in the "in malibu"
hook parts ??

Manning,  I’m really pressed for time here and I’m having a big problem lining up your rhythm MP3 with the other audio tracks.  I’m trying to hear the song in its entirety until the lead part comes in so I can try and blend the sounds.  Would it be possible for you to send me a file of the entire song sans your lead guitar part?  That way I should be able to get this project going before I take off on vacation/holiday next week.

I’m off to work now (I teach guitar two nights a week) but I’ll be back in a few hours.  If you can’t, no problem I’ll try it again.

Thanx - MarioD

Mario.
no probs mate. apologies.
gimme an hour or so.
if not sooner.
gotta pick my wife up from somewhere.

attached are some rhythm splangs with line up at front.

Mario.
heres malibu mix ..no lead.
attached.
god bless n call me ed. as in the donkey..lol.

Oh yeah, we're cookin' now! Let me work with all the submitted tracks and conjure up an interim mix so we can get our bearings... :;

Here is the song (malsurflead) with my so-called surf lead. It was the first thing that popped into my head. This will line up with the malnolead file that Ed sent me. Let me know what you think.

Also attached is the lead sans any effects (surflead).

Got it, Mario! I'll stir it in with the general interim mix that's in the works as we speak.
        _______________________________________________________________

In the meantime, I was having so much fun with James' new Jamstix surf drums that I mixed down a fresh percussion track. James' drum action is reinforced with a little extra Hydrogen bottom end - we were going for BIG :o, and this might do the trick. Here it is on it's own...

...and the drum mix, teamed up with James' new bass track (as yet unedited and without effects), and Ed's original demo track...
Schweet! :-

 :;
This is shaping up well, brothers .....

one track I don't seem to have is the main vocal on it's own, without the backing.  ::)

If I can find some time tomorrow I shall try to get some 'backing/chorus' vocal done.  :-X

 ;)
James

re main vocs.
oh..sorry i thought  i was told to conserve my bandwith.
but i checked my useage..i'm still ok.
cos a new month of fresh bwidth coming.
so tomorrow thursday.
i'll upload the guide ruff vocs on their own.
hope thats ok mates.

heres the ruff guide vocs on their own
with clik lead in .

Schweet! Glad your upload/download quota for the month is holding up. The more discreet tracking we have to work with, the better!

 8)
This project is getting to be real interesting.

I hope to find time (as I said yesterday) to do some backing vocals ....
but, also ....

my Telecaster has been out of commission because of a split nut  :-X ... but I grabbed a couple of hours today and fitted a new one, trimmed the truss rod and intonation  :o ... just about a full set-up.
I've just run it thru (software) RednefTwin and WatCat ....
and I think I can do a 'trade-off' track for Mario's guitar  :-\

We'll see what the next couple of days bring  8)

 ;)
James

 8)
Here is a very ruff mix, from the tracks available plus my extra guitar track.

 ::)
Wall of sound !!  :o

 ;)
James

 :-X
And, my extra guitar track for those who want to cut and splice  ::)

 ;)
James

Yeah! Big, raucous, attitudinal... Did I mention BIG?... O0

 8)
I think this will be my final offering for this one.

This is a chorus backup vocal.
I did two mono takes, panned them hard L&R, and rendered them to a stereo track for convenience. No processing so just do what you like with them .... try to make it sound like a crowd  :-X

 ;)
James

Oren mate.
are you doing a mix for this ??
sorry for being out of it long...my wife needed the net for her work.

 :-X
Hey, Ed.


 ???
I hope he is .... have you heard my 'mega-mix' ?
I think we need some of Oren's  8) subtlety  8)

 ;)
James

You bet I am! Taking the time to edit the tracks and line everything up into a coherent package - there is a lot of material :o, so it could be a while.

Oren.
no prob mate. take yer time.
some comments on walls mix.
1. the drums generally i like the density.
2. i like the sound picture of the geetar at 4 secs. splang.
3. i like the "idea" of a likkle lead geetar playing along with
the vocs. but feel the notes should mimic the voc notes if we
are gonna do it that way. actualy i like the sound picture of that likkle geetar playing along with the vocs..but needs to mimic the voc notes for cohesion possibly.
its all sound picture stuff.
4. from 1 to 3 secs. that section i like the cohesion of it.
but would like to hear it again before the Am splang.
5. up to when verse1 starts i feel it should just be simple splangs...
with the burble slide thing happening. kiss concept.
6. love that burble at 33 secs. but mebe use it judiciously thru song ??
for example at 1min17secs not needed again ??
at 1min27 secs the downward chords i feel should come thru with not much other
geetar going on. people could just reinforce my notes useing the same ones for example.
7. at lead break one. i like the geetar lead that sorta follows
the demo. needs to  be brought up.
this area there are a lot of leads going on..lol. simplify ??
arrangement decisions ?? but i DO LIKE the tone/picture of the leads.
question is which one to use. ?? or a combo ??
there are also towards the end some sweet high tones.
8. at 2mins 22secs. once again i feel the lead notes should follow the voc notes.
one thing i hear in my silly head viz this song.
think of "sea tides". it would be nice to have things in the song and the dynamics
of the song flowing in and out like the tides. difficult to explain.
9. at 2min39secs..the burble slide..PERFECT !! YES.
after the lyric "old".  
10. the second lead break area later after "old" needs a really hooky lead.
i like the "tone" of the geetar. nice sound tho.
11. once again i feel the splangs starting at 3min21 secs should be allowed to ring out. without added geetar work. if one doesnt like my splang tone.
just replace but useing same notes ?? OR add to in unison ??//
reinforce.
12. right at end...3min26secs..i dont feel the burble slide should be there.
just let the vocs n instruments ring out "in malibu"..etc.
this is what i call a "critical song power area". ie..finishing the song off with
lots of POWER//WITH A BANG. so the punter listener goes wow hopefully.
anyhoo thats what i hear in my silly head.

feel free to disagree with any of my comments mates.
i DO agree with a "wall O' sound" in concept..but subtley.
an old LA engr once said to me .."hit the punter with one key thing at one time".
and i feel its important to bear this concept in mind in this song.
eg when a key burble slide is happening, not much else lead wise is.
or lets say when a main lead break occurs the focus should be the lead.
or for example when splangs occur...not much else. that kind of concept.
hoping i make some sense.
i really feel this could be a great collab. but its the attention to lots of
likkle dtails thats gonna make or break the final product.
god bless n HELL YES THIS IS FUN !!

Apologies for the slow progress on my end, folks... I've been working a lot lately ::).

I hope to have a solid bass and percussion mix  for us tomorrow, with Ed's vocal included for context. Once we agree on this foundation, it will be time to edit and arrange the guitars and backing vocals, and Ed can record his finished vocals for the final mix.

Bear with me, gents - I'm on the case... ;D

For a moment I read that as:-
Beer with me gents - I've got a case.

OK I'll get my coat ;D

I've been dipping in here from time to time having a nose around. I'll be one of the first to grab the final mix :D

That's what we call a "two-four" up north, Will - 24 bottles of beer in a box. A little slice of hoser heaven. ::)
                             ______________________________________________________________________________

Here is a track with bass and drums edited to give us a strong bottom end on which to build our song.
....suggestions for improvement will be grudgingly accepted...  :D
     (apologies to James for carving up his electric bass performance :-*)

This sounds as a very solid foundation... you could build a castle on it  ;D

k

No apologies need my friend.

I'm going on vacation/holiday so I will not be around to give any input.  DO NOT wait for me.  I'll accept what ever you decide.  Heck, you always make better choices anyway!

Kara,
Schweet! :-
   ______________________________________________________________

Mario,
Enjoy your vacation, friend - we'll try not to mess up too dramatically whilst you're away O0

I want to know what that bass guitarist is on - I doubt it's legal ;D

:o
These days it's either Highland Earl or High Commissioner, but it does vary on a seasonal basis.  ::)  :-X

 ;)
James

Oren mate.
i listened to malibu bottom.
its very difficult for me to say.
without hearing the rhythm geetars also.
i'm terribly sorry.
as an alternative drum pattern in my mind...
if we take 4 beats in a bar.
within the 4 beats i  hear something like this.
for each beat.. b b b b
so 16 b's in a bar. same tempo as you have mate.
just an alternative idea to try mebe ??
its terribly difficult to describe ,
other than to say sorta fast flowing drum beat within your existing tempo.
god bless. ed.
mario..have a very nice time mate.
ps..i'm kinda partial to rickards red beer made
in canada. but being a limey i'm a huge tea drinker.
best tea in the world is canadian red rose imho.
beats all the brit teas i grew up on imho.

OK, so I've increased the volume of the 16th note drum hits, then mixed in Ed's rhythm guitar so we can hear the bass and drums in context.

Feast your ears... ;D

Oren.
i think possibly we need more 16th notes n 8th notes mate possibly.
your bpm is correct , ...but i feel the drums need more "motion"
a la showing the power of the sea.
heres a typical surfer song..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UofdWQG346k&feature=related
now i'm not saying that speed mate.
but the pattern has the "motion" of the tides which i think they were
trying to convey on the song.
mebe try kik on 1 ,2,3,4 beats for pinning it down.
snare on 2 n 4 and alternating with snare syncopations within
the bar, kik snare snare kik, with mebe a tom plus hi hat on the 16th
beats for motion.

one part i really liked was the kick off to the song..
3 secs to just before the first voc verse starts.
it has this "gearing up" or revving up facet to it. nice.
i wouldnt change that. then i would suggest in the verses
switching more to the 16th beat approach perhaps. ??
i hear this da da da da da da da da da da da da sorta motion.
i hear this bloke sorta on say cabasa or something
playing with his hands the 16th or mebe 8th note rhythm
within the bar of 4 beats.
many apologies if i'm not communicating right.
god bless.

Ok, Ed - got you about the drums. I'll take a run at them tomorrow, and make you proud.

Now, give me some feed back on the arrangement of the electric bass, willya..? :D

oren mate.
generally i like the bass..
but in  particular the downward part at
1min22 secs etc. and other downward sections in the song.
yep..generally i think the bass trak is there.
there are possibly some parts where the bass could play mebe more notes .
reinforcing the speedy motion aspect..
d d d d . <8 to a bar ?? on one note.
but such leave till possibly other instrumentation is done ??
honestly mate big kudos for your effort on this.
respect. 
god bless.

I get the impression that you guys are building the next world hit  8)
Every note in the song will be discussed

Kudoz guys, a great collaboration effort  :-

The result will be up to par

k
 

update..tooth out...aarrgghh !
just so you good chaps know.
just got back from emerge dental stuff . takeing a tooth out.
no biggie..i'm talking like an idiot with cotton in me mouth..lol.
but dentist said  i prolly shouldnt do vocs for a couple of days.
theres gotta be be a song there .."toothless in...fill in the blanks"..lol.
feelin a bit groggy so gonna lie down.

ooch get well soon....

k

There's a song in every experience, mi amigo. If it's a bad experience, write a country song... or maybe some blooze... ;D

Take this opportunity to spoil yourself :-* - they don't come along every day!

2:30 I went to the dentist.
2:30 I'm strong-willed but yet,
2:30 I went to the dentist.
Tooth hurty I'll never forget ;D

lol.
well starting to feel better mates.
wifey banned me to bed..lol.
Oren.
just in case you need it mate..
i got new isp bandwidth month started.
so heres my original drum clik trak.
an old trik is to put such behind the main drums for density.
sometimes workie, sometimes not.
god bless.
ps..
here ya go..lol.
tooth lyrics.
went to the dentist , he took it out.
biggest blinkin tooth, bigger'n a sprout.
now me bird, she's kinda miffed,
cos she dont get no blinkin kiss.
said she'd get a toy if i dont recover,
so i went running home cryin to me "muvver".

Got yer drum track, Ed!

Rather than mix it with the two existing percussion tracks, I programmed Hydrogen to kick in another bass drum, tuned slightly different than the other, and added some extra 16th note hits - as if the drummer had two kick drums. This gives extra "movement", while keeping things punchy and articulate.

Are we there yet..? :D

This is a darn good drumtrack, sounds live and a solid foundation for the song.
Has to be with a drummer who has 3 feet  ;D

k

Oren.
yep mate . good on ya mate.
much much better.
like the ending also.

god bless.
ed.

Sounding more like a 60s rock group every time :)

Schweet! :-

I'll have a go at the guitar tracks from Mario and James next...

Oren mate.
i cant wait..but take your time.
in the interim someone told me about a cute likkle
auto arranger.
so of course i had to do a likkle new song idea.
n try it out.
(oh no says oren.lol.)
heres my review of it on KM plus brief demo mp3 .
http://www.kara-moon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5652.0

Looks cool, Ed! Not bad fro 25 bucks, either.... :o

Here is a mix, including Ed's big strummed guitar accents for context, featuring the bits of Mario's staccato surf guitar that punch the song up at just the right spots. Listen, and comment please.

Next job is to have a go at James' guitar stylings...

Finally got James' guitar edited and deployed... :D

Here it is with some surf reverb applied to both James' guitar parts, and to Mario's edited riffs.

Oren.
re malibu james.
1. really superb..the burble at 1min6secs.
CLASSIC KEEPER SOUND PICTURE.
2. love the bass run at 1min13secs. yep.
3. at 2min6/7secs is this geetar counter point.
superb. THATS THINKING..YES !!

yes coming along nice.

ps mate..only thing that troubles me a tad is the
snare syncopation at 52 secs.
what about just a "snare snare"" TA DA instead ??
ie everyone one must come along "TA DA" ..
two snare hits ??
i think frankly the rhythm backing is pretty much there mate.

at this juncture , n mebe you n everyone else might disagree is to step back
n think what other instruments in an orchestra
might be usefull to use in this song ??

let me explain...its all sound picture topics.
so far we have drums n bass n geetar rhythm.
but are there other places for "different instruments".
this is what they were so good at in the 50's.
asking such sound picture questions.

its just a discussion i feel all of us contributing to this song might have ??
for example..any place for brass ?? (via a plug in)
or other orchestral instruments (via plug in.) ??
i'm not saying necessarily we should do such.
its just a mild suggestion. and asking does anyone hear in the
song any other instrumentation that might elevate the song further ??
latin perc subtly for example ??
reason i'm asking is i hear "something" but i cant quite put my finger on it.
ie..very subtle stuff that can contribute to sound picture.
shoot me down if i'm wrong mates.
i'm just suggesting we discuss such before moving on to the next phase..
critical lead parts of the song.
god bless.

Ed,

I'll see if I can edit out that snare at 52 seconds, and replace it with something more suitable.

If I could anything instrumentally to this puppy, it would be some old-school Hammond organ. Kara has the chops for that, as does Thom, and Mario, for that matter.

Orchestral instruments in a live beach band seem a little out of place, from where I sit... :D

 8)
I don't know if this is of any help .... just the other day I came across this free VST called Efthimia Organ by Iliadis.  This is the first time I've tried it ...  :o and it is SO sixties  :o

Anyways .. I'm no keyboardist but here is a single take of the whole song.
If it is of any use, please just cut and stick.  If you think it can be explored further, then I am willing to give it a go.  :-X

 ;)
James

 8)
And here is a very 'ruff' mix with it.

If anyone wants to give it a try you can find it here: http://www.iliadisorgan.com/freeplugins.html (http://www.iliadisorgan.com/freeplugins.html)

 ;)
James

Holy shenanigans, James, that ain't too shabby! O0

Give me a couple of days with it - this might be just what "Doctor Ed" prescribed... ;D :;

James, my wild and hairy friend :-*, may I impose on you to lay down a full-length track of that nasty Hammond sound... just two notes, the root and the fifth?
 Move around with it a little, if you like, sometimes playing the root alone, sometimes the fifth.  And would you end the song with that nice sustained two note "chord", holding on for a few beats after the rest of the instruments are done, and allowing the reverb tail to run it's course before ending the track?

It feels like this may be the cohesive element that holds the whole production together, and I want to have enough material to really exploit this opportunity to its fullest. Am I making any sense... ::)

 8)
No problem ....
get back to you later   :-X

 ;)
James

Oren,
 :D  As requested (with a few embellishments)  ::)

If you need any more just let me know. :-*

 ;)
James

chaps.
my apologies if i didnt explain myself well
re orchestral sounds.
please allow me to explain further.
in essence, yes one wouldnt use orchestra
stuff in a surf genre. but, and ive only talked to a few folks who sold
a slew of records in the past, who were very shareing with their time.
and one of the major points they told me was the process of
stepping back  and re evaluating the song.
so no worry..i dont hear a chorus of violas ..lol..
but for example..does the likkle triangle have a place ??
or some other likkle subtle thing ??
one "trik" i was told is some producers keep a huge list in their studios of all
orchestral /other instruments from various countries
..and what they sometimes do in
the reevaluating /stepping back process is...scan the big list of instruments
and just spend some time thinking of possibilities.
not that they might actually use one, but it helps think bout sound picture.
frankly one of the reasons ive always tried to stay in the background
cos i was told by one artist who sold several hundred million records
how scary life becomes if a song breaks thru.
in this songs case i just hear something i cant put my finger on.
mebe i'm full of it mates..dunno. but something sound picture wise
is nagging at me.
honestly i just want the best for you good chaps.
god bless.  

James,
Could you possibly be a little quicker and more enthusiastic, please... ? :D :;

Ed,
I'll noodle around with this lovely bit of Hammond action, then you may want to suggest further tweaks/additions to the mix to complete the sonic landscape. We're down to the short strokes, now ( as they say in golf), and I think we are still on the same page...   :-

Oren.
okey dokey mate.
please feel free to slam me if i get too "pernickety/picky". lol.
i sometimes get too detailed.
but i hope my heart is in the right place cos i just
want the best for you good folks n the song.

Progress report: :D
   This old-school organ stuff that James has cooked up has got us sounding like "Deep Purple on the Beach" - it's absolutely fantastic! :o
 A preliminary mix is still a couple of days away, but buckle up your harness and tighten that chinstrap, 'cause it is going to rock!
(we may have found our missing ingredient, after all, Ed...)
This is a scream! :;

Here is a taste of how James' keyboard work jives with the existing material. :-

It's taking me forever to edit and mix because there are so many possibilities, and I want to deploy this "Hammond" performance to best advantage.

That Hammond stuff is an interesting addittion, not what I would except in a song like this, but it works !  :-

k

Oren.
i agree mate.
its definitely adding something to the sound picture.
if i may be as bold to suggest,
the key will be when to lay it back in the mix and when to bring it forward more
like in that downward chord segment.
mebe lay back in the verses for example in the singin.
so the organ is in a subtle rhythm supporting role ??

this is gonna be very interesting.
lotsa fun. no rush mate. just take yer time.
i can see the video now..lol..
on the beach.

Exactly! We can bring it up or down according to how it compliments the over-all performance.
I'll get it into some semblance of order, then you guys can make specific recommendations as to fine-tuning the mix. O0

Yup - if our song was a cake, this would be the icing... ;D

And now, for the big finish - very rough, yet... ;D
Apologies for posting little pieces, but I can't wait to post the whole thing. Too cool!

Oren.
mebe i'm wrong but that works for me mate on the song ending..
particularly in the sample the 31second mark to final end.
going out with a bang etc etc. works for me mate.
sorry to rag on bout "sound picture"...but a great sound picture can have a huge impact on a listener psychologically.
but folks feel free to disagree cos i'm just one opinion.
ps..love n hugs to everyone.

On this segment, 7 seconds to 31 seconds is still very tentative. I'm trying to combine two or three of James' bits to give the impression of a seasoned player working the keyboard with two hands - we'll see how it progresses.
 31 seconds onward is definitely a lively crescendo of instruments and vocal. With luck I can conjure up a similar symbiotic action wherever we choose to include the Hammond sound.
OK, back to work...  :-*

Works !
Great editing job Oren  :-

k

A preliminary mix for your perusal... :D

May I suggest we get a final vocal performance from Ed before any more editing or fine tuning transpires?

(in case you wonder where James' guitar stuff went - his Hammond twiddling completely blew it away... :o)

It's a winner as far as I'm concerned :;

PS - James, GREAT organ part :-

PPS - Oren Super mix :; :- :; O0

okay..preassures on me..lol.
just need to know one thing.
any lyric changes anyone feels are needed ??
or is everyone ok with the lyrics ??

i normally get sweaty palms n get all nervous
doin final vocs..lol.
but i'll give it the good ole college try n then you good folks can
critique.
i'll check back in a few hours bout if anyone feels any lyric changes are needed.
 
god bless.

Ed, just go with it, man  :;

Oren ... fabulous mix ... I didn't know I could play the organ  ::)

 O0
James

okey dokey.
i'll use same lyrics.
lets see if i can improve the vocs.
todays tuesday.
family stuff today.
but tomorrow n thursday i'll do the vocs.
ive set 2 days aside.
Oren mate.
that  MalibuMix May17.ogg..could ya do me a favor n upload
same minus my guide vocs please ??
so i can start afresh with your mix.
and not be distracted by the existing vocs on it.
i'll check back in a coupla hours.
cheers mate.

Groovy ;D

Here it is with just the instruments... :-*

cheers mate.
got it !!
lotsa fun work to do.
see ya in a coupla days..wish me luck..lol.

ps..why i get a tad antsy bout my vocs these days is..
getting older..have to work much harder in the higher registers.
luckily this aint so high a register.
but man i wish we were doing this 20 yrs ago.
then i coulda ponced around with high femme vocs in
the "in malibu" part also..lol.

mates ..
heres the first two verses of lead vocs attached.
PLEASE CRITIQUE.
please focus on words n vocal texture.
tell me what you hate etc.
ive put the vocs up a bit higher to make critique easier.
(i'm workin on third verse this afternoon.).

note..
yep i know..i gotta watch that word "old".

to help oren...
heres what i'm gonna do.
two final takes ..this current one i'm working on
(last verse doing this afternoon.)

then redo the whole shebang...all 3 verses etc
AGAIN n send oren 2 traks.
so he can mix n match words n phrases  tween both takes n
even double trak the vocs in places if he wants.
so he has flexibility.

in some places i hear the vocs double tracked.
do you good folks hear the same ??
if you DO....tell me which phrases etc etc.

------------------------------------------------
jeesh...i wish i was doin this 20 yrs ago...
it was so much easier to ace it then.
twas a doddle then..lol.
i blinkin hate gettin old..lol.

now i gotta get back at it.

god bless.
 

Since English isn't my native language i'm able to listen to vox with abstraction of the content  ;D
It is a sort of musical and phonical (don't know if this is the right word) listening.
This sounds good, lot of energy and enthusiasm up to par with the music   

k

Ed,
This is your style O0 - therefore perfect for the song, in both composition and performance.
Carry on...

cheers.
well theres a coupla things i gotta fix up.
not sure bout the very first phrase of verse 1
for example. n the word "old" bugs moi.
ok..heres second part of first take attached.
verse 3 n the outtro etc.
again please critique.
slam me..whatever ..kik me in the dirt etc etc lol.

will do a complete second take tomorrow.
gotta take car for brake work..so
please bear with me.

What we have here is a blueprint for rock-and-roll mayhem - perfect. ;D
Now just lay it down, send us a photo of your tonsils splattered across the studio, and post the tracks for mixdown.  :-

well i dunno..
worst time for allergies to do me in.
blinkin hay fever season.
will do another take today.
i dont wanna rush this..
god bless.

chaps.
tell me what you think of this
double tracking voc test attached.
need feedback/critique. etc.
are the vocs powerfull enough ??
do they have the required character ??
if you like the double trak idea.
i'll do next verse to end of song this way.
please get back to me asap cos i have
whole of today..thursday for workin on the vocs more. 

god bless.
ps...i'll be pretty busy with family stuff at weekend
but have kept tues/wed/thurs next week free
for further voc work on the song.
pps..TONSIL SPLATTER..omg..
blew me morning tea out me nostrils laughing.
BEAUTY COMMENT !! LMAO times a zillion.

Hmm don't know, perhaps an idea to only double track in the choruses ?

kara.
re double tracking.
mebe i'm wrong , but it seems the song has more
vocal power this way ??.
perhaps we could have a discussion n reach
a consensus on this with all concerned ??
i'm frankly easy..whatever the majority decide,
cos my feelings might be wrong.
i would like this to be a group decision
rather than mine..cos i'm possibly too
close to it.
anyhoo..back to working on the song.
i got all day today.
god bless. n i'll check back in a few hours.  

You could be right Ed
But I see it more as a live performance where the band would play and the lead-singer sing. And in the chorus everybody would yell 'IN MALIBU'. Double tracking gives more presence to the vox as you said, but you loose the spontaneous live effect
Now you can't emulate a whole band by yourself, but artists that contributed to this song could record the 'in malibu part'
Mixed up in the choruses would give a nice effect

k

Double-tracking does a nice job of thickening up the vocal, but with a voice as commanding as yours, Ed, it's really not necessary.
And as Kara says, it takes away from the live beach-band feel.

In my opinion, double-track "in Malibu, in Malibu", and that's all. I'll apply a little slap-back echo during mixdown as if the voice is bouncing off a near-by building, and it will get plenty big... :D

I like the idea of having some of our forum members shouting and hollering "Malibu" in the back ground... Some audience noise mixed in at beginning and end would also be a nice touch.

ok...
agreed then.
verses single tracked.
choruses doubled.
oren please listen to the single tracked done already therefore
posted up thread.
two files..one v1/v2 and other v3 outtro etc.
both include double tracked choruses.
tell me if suitable for sending to you the vocs on their own.
if not i'll redo the bits ya dont like.

yep..i like the hootin n hollering n crowd noise idea also n your other ideas.
god bless.
ps..been a daft day. silly doggie we think ate a bee,
lethargic now gettin better.
lotsa bees out here.  prolly explains pollen giving me hay fever. lol.

woopsi..forgot to mention.
my dear wifey got us free tickets to go see
Gerrry n the Pacemakers live this weekend.
it'll be interesting to hear how good they do n mebe talk to
the sound man if i get a chance.

ok...
heres single trak in verses n doubling in choruses,..
whole shebang.

please tell me if this final voc arrange is ok.
OR..please tell me what to change.
there are a couple of likkle touch ups i would like to do ,
and i can do em with folks suggested changes,.
BTW..who was the genius who thought up that riff at
at 2mins 7/8 secs ??..ascending.
BLINKIN GENIUS. mebe also have at end tween the malibu choruses.
thats thinkin man..blinkin sound picture..groovy.
eddie boy is knackered.,.lol..gonna take a small kip.
god bless..ed.

That ascending guitar thing at 2min. 7sec. is courtesy of Mario. :- Maybe I can sneak it in again, adjacent to the last chorus... hmmm...let's see... ;)

I'm hearing some discrepancies in the vocal doubling, Ed, that are not characteristic of your usual performances. Maybe your reaction to the pollen?
I recommend you sing the choruses straight, with gusto, and I'll double them here - easily done, and then the resulting "chorus" effect will be more controllable.
Otherwise, the vocal performance is sterling. 8)

Something is bothering me with this song, I couldn't lay my finger on it until now but found it this morning !
ok, we have 2 guitar players in this band yes ?

Now, based on live playing for years in several bands, i just can't imagine that with a song like that none of them would grab the opportunity to solo somewhere in the song ! This is realy missing IMHO...


k
   

Some guitar action, like from Chuck Berry or the Ventures, would give added interest and help promote the "beach party" mood.

I'm hoping Mario can pull that off ;D, ...but if necessary, I can approximate Mario's tone and attempt some 1960's style picking...

Oren. n chaps.
1..re discrepencies..
please tell me which time points you feel need fixin up.
ie x mins yy secs sorta idea.
n i'll fix em up till happy.
just a tad confoosed whats needed.
dam internet...lol..its easier if we are
all workin together in same location..lol.
also you have the original choruses on their own if i remember ??
in the demo ?? did you like em better ??
2. yeh hay fever n pollen killing me right now.
had  fever this time of year from when i was a kidlet.
3. re karas points bout guitars.
in the original demo i posted i left 2 spaces for lead guitar n
just pumped in a place holder in one lead break.
i personally hear the organ in rhythm support..
just in the backing sorta idea ??
with occasional moves of flourishers to the front ??
but mainly a geetar song.
4. chaps i wont be able to do much this weekend.
i might be able to squeeze in an hour or so ...
once i get the answer to point 1.
next week ive kept 3 complete days free.
tues/wed/thurs. 

god bless.
ed.,

Ed,

The locations at which your double-tracking is a tad loose (therefore sounding out of tune rather than thick and chorused), based in your mp3- "malvocarr":
42sec. to 45sec.
1min.11 sec. to 1min.13sec.
2min.50sec. to 2min.52sec.
3min.40sec. to 3min.41sec.

Your original performance was right on for the song; if the original track is going to be superior (in that it was performed before hay fever season) let's go with it - your call, oh silver throated one... :D

I'm going to take some time off. now, and apply myself to the spring season Review song. Summer starts on June 21st, and I'll need the next 3 or 4 weeks to record a song that's been brewing for a month or more.
Then, back to Malibu... :-

Oren.
ok..mate gotcha.
will make changes this week mate.
n see if ya like em..
otherwise we can use my original traks
which i'll upload.
all the best.
ps..what is review song ??

Oren.
here is first chorus..small mp3 attached.
i did a bit of editing work on mate.
i also checked the voc notes were in tune
with a tuner plug in mate.


does this now work for you ??
if not..please tell me ..
is it alignment ?? or the general voc texture ??
or do you want me to sing it HARDER ??
rather than softer ??

i just wanna get it right.

god bless.
\ed

ok..
tell me what you think folks
of the choruses now.
(full song attached.)
ive reinforced n checked with tuning software etc.
i cant do much more without critical feedback
cos i'm too close to it.

re the choruses.
"in malibu".
what i hear is other voices singin the choruses
either side of the stereo image with me.

if you can get back to me with critique cos i got wed n thurs
free this week.

god bless.
ed.

Ducky, Ed! :- Everything squared away - all sins forgiven  :D
You have cemented your position as Kara-Moon's number one vocalist - post those tracks at your leisure - we're in the tall grass, now!

Oren/folks.
re vocals.
well my problem, like i suspect many folks here..
is family commitments.
and finding "me time" so i can quietly
get things the way i want em.
as an aside my wife is absolutely wonderfull..
never hassles me.
but us both have been thru a heavy era of
dealing with family n medical stuff i wont bore you with.
which is now abateing.
so what ive done is allocate "me time"..tues/wed/thurs
each week for songs, n family stuff/commitments
other days.
i find i work very well on those 3 days with
peace and solitude so i can concentrate.
and as you know..songs are work n require
lots of concentration n trying things.
but heck as my dear wife says..i love doing songs.

i'll mention something from my heart also.
and its kinda ironic bout life.
when i was a nipper in the uk, had a great voice..
but never could afford to record in uk studios.
but now i'm old, n its inexpensive to record...
my darn upper vocal registers i have to work at more
cos of age.
this is why i need feedback..even if it slams me.
cos its good in a way n makes me work harder.
my attitude is i'll do my darndest on a song..
but i cant win em all.
i sing on lots of songs, some turn out well ,
others not.
its weird actually. sometimes i get what i call
"magic days"..lol...everything just goes right,
n other days not so. just comes with the gig of doing vocs.

lol..prolly as i age further and i loose more upper register
i'll have to sing more a leonard cohen style.
down lower. i hate gettin old..lol.

re malibu.
todays wednesday. i would still like today n tomorrow
to see if i can improve the vocs further.
coupla things bug me.
so i'll post vocs late thursday this week if thats ok.

god bless. 

ok...heres a short fun test attached..
AND I DONT KNOW IF IT WORKS.
thus need feedback.
femme singers at end of song.

i used a harmoniser to create femme voices.
blinkin tricky stuff to get right.  
we all know the probs with such..robotic etc.
and ideally instead proper female back up singers are needed.
we need female singers on this forum...lol.
anyhoo gimme yer comments.
cos this type of audio engineering is blinkin tough.
sometimes one can fudge femme singers...but often not.
depends on the song.

now i'm gonna go work on a couple of lead
voc phrases that bug me.
should be done by end of tomorrow.

I'll ask the lady next week if she can sing a couple of 'Malibus' :)

k

Oren/folks.
heres the malibu vocs on their own with line up at front.
(delete line up in your daw.).
DRY/NO FX. (ogg)
note..as i took off all fx n level automation..
if a chorus for example seems too high..
cut around it in your daw and reduce its level etc.
god bless n tell moi how ya get on.
youll need to add yer own fx n mix technique.

Kara..(what a nice name !!..)
yes , in the choruses it would be nice to have not only
some femme singing but also crowd singing
as suggested earlier.

:; ...give me a few days... Up to my keester in the Spring Review entry, but things are going well.

Oren.
take yer time mate.
no rush. dont wear yerself out mate.
also if you or other folks feel more vocal work
is needed..i'll be happy to oblige.
but i would prefer to do so once more
instrumentation is on the song.
cos i very much key my vocal energy off the sound picture etc etc.
i tend to do better this way with my  vocs.
and find it more difficult when things are sparse.
god bless.

New vocals, duplicated in stereo, delayed left and right, with a touch of reverb, for that "outdoor concert" feel. Just a few bars so you can critique the sound and mix.
Extra guitars on the way...

Oren mate.
GEE BLINKIN WHIZZ mate..
holy cow.
YOUR A MIX HERO !!
LOVIN THE VOCAL n THE MIX....LOVIN EVERYTHING MATE.
NOW ITS GOT POWER !!
suckers got legs now.
what can i say ??
great work mate. HUGE KUDOS.
YES SIR OREN..I BOW DOWN BEFORE YOU SIR !!
Queens MBE n all that.
god bless n MUCH RESPECT.
ed.

I knew this would be good
And it's even better !

k

Careful, Gents,
my head is beginning to swell :D

Some guitar, hopefully in a style that suits the beach party theme...  recommendations?

 :o
Quite a stellar mix, Mr Canada.  :;

As for the guitar .... I got no adverse comments other than that it is a tad more 'restrained' than I would have expected ..... but I suppose that IS the mark of a sympathetic player.  You truly have hit the knack of playing off against the other instruments so that the overall mix is never overwhelmed ....  ::)

In other words ...  :; :; :;
 O0 :-

 ;)
James   

chaps.
my 2c.
i frankly think its critical what decisions are now made
by us all regarding the song.
we have to ask ourselves..
"what would the old great song producers do at this point". ?
for me the mix before june 9 was spot on.
and a concept to build on.

heres what i'm hearing in my mind.
there are 2 lead break areas.
in those 2 areas i hear the organ in rhythm mode
back in the mix, and 2 outstanding leads.
either lead guitar OR mebe in one break a sax solo.
then for added icings as the song is for women also it
would be nice to have some female voices in the voc choruses.

the song is darn close now, and its a question
how to do the icings on the cake as it were.

let me also say , as i said superb job on the  mixing by oren..
but i also want to give kudos to all the folks who contribbed
with bass n organ etc. its very neat the way the organ comes in and out
in the mix. ie..organ mainly in rhythm mode with likkle
"upfront flourishes".

one other thought i would like to share.
i'm sure like myself everyone here thinks up numerous song ideas
each month.
(i prolly get about 20 a month n its highly frustrating one cant bring all to fruition.)
but the way this song is progressing underlines
that for one person "to do it all" on a song is well nigh impossible.
in summary it has to include other gifted folks as a team effort.
as per this song.
 
ive had the fortune in the past to talk to people who were there when certain
big songs were produced. and in every case it wasnt one musician..
but a team effort.
and the same i feel goes for this song. it shows the great value
of collabing cos different people bring different ideas.
kudos to you all.  
let me also say what i absolutely LOVE here at KM
is the "friendliness" of things. unlike many other places
on the net. and the collegial atmosphere etc.

i feel we are now in the home stretch on this song...
just suggesting in this phase we think very very carefully
how to make the song even better in this final phase.
many important decisions at this juncture could really
make it superb. the final sound picture will make or break it.
thus i think we should discuss such.
hit me up with your thoughts  .
as kara said "its even better".
but lets not rest on our laurels..lets make it even
better still.

This is a super mix Oren.  Great job!

How to make it better is a very hard question to answer! I like to keep in mind that sometimes one can polish a song so much that it ends up dull.  This has a good vibe right now so let’s not loose that.

For me the question is in what era do you want the song to sound like?  If contemporary then this is just about finished if not finished and it sounds super.  Now when an old stereotyped picker like myself hears a song about Malibu Beach with a chord progression, instrumentation and vocals (all expertly played and sang BTW) like this I think of the sixties surf sounds. Now if that’s the era we are aiming for then IMHO the lead guitar sounds be more like a  Mosrite or Fender sound with a touch of reverb; think of the Beach Boys, Safaris, Jan and Dean etc.

Just my thoughts-FWIW.

Mario - just the kind of feedback I was hoping for. :-
There are two guitar phrases solely aimed at Chuck Berry territory - the rest is patterned after the guitarist from SugarLoaf (of "Green Eyed Lady" fame), and is much too "'70's" for this number.

There is, however, a whammy bar on this G&L, and some very spanky clean sounds in my old Digitech - sufficient to lay down some Ventures licks. I'll get right on it.
Would you care to jump in with a few more of your own...? ;D

(interestingly, Hendrix preferred Mosrite to Fender, and only used Stratocasters on stage where they might get damaged (or set on fire ::)) - his studio and at-home guitars were Mosrite)
       ________________________________________________________________________

Ed - we'll keep at it. There's plenty more that can be done without "over doing", if we're gentle... :-*

Oren, although I’m busier than a guitarist at the Guitar Center with a stolen charge card I’ll try to make some time to lay down a track or two.  Would you be able to send me, or post, an OGG file without a lead and tell me where you would like the leads added and I’ll give it a try.

sorry back late.
had family stuff.
mario..re lead breaks.
2 main areas..
first is after i sing "in malibu " .
1min35 secs to 2mins..ending just before the downward guitar
progression.
second area around 2mins 54secs to 3min18secs.

oren mate ..
could you post the MalibuVocMix.ogg
for the full song length ie..just like that mix
that i love so much that you did.
and with the organ pulled back in rhythm
mode rather than upfront in the 2 lead areas ??
thus then mario can do his thing.
is that ok ??
i agree twould be nice to get 2 legendary surf style leads
in those 2 lead areas. a la mosrite.
that would be neat.
imho those 2 lead areas are vitally important to
make the song even better.
i tried several lead ideas myself but failed to find anything
i was happy with. so i beat myself up...lol.
in  my mind however i hear single note
melodic leads in those 2 areas a la the old surf bands styles.

James,
Thanks for your positive comments! Guitar players get a bad rap (although well-deserved ::)) for playing too fast - too loud - too long... I try to compensate in some small way... :D

OK, Mario,
Here's the mix with that Hammond pulled back a bit in the guitar solo areas - 1min35sec to 2min, and 2min54sec to 3min18sec.

Once all the instruments are in place and the mix is working, I'll give the whole shebang that "outdoor concert" treatment to put it "in the same room" as Ed's vocal - so that all the instruments sound like they are on a stage out on the beach. We need to get the mix right, first...
           ________________________________________________________

Oh yeah - I left the two Chuck Berry "camel walk" guitar pieces in the mix. If they don't work, let me know...

This is getting better with each release, somebody here becomes a real expert with Ardour...
Now to be honnest, I'm not over entousiastic about that solo guitar sound, the playing of course is great but that sound doesn't realy fit in the song in my humble opinion.
I would rather expect a sound like the Shadows had in there era ?

About guitar players :
Years of playing in live bands learned me something, at the end of a concert a guitar player says allways the same thing
- I couldn't hear myself enough.
- Did you hear that great solo of me ?

By coincidence, we where auditioning a new guitar player for our group yesterday. The guy has over 20 years of experience in several jazz bands so i was pretty convident about his skills.
He came in pretty humble playing some gently rythmic guitar on the background while we where rehearsing. The proof of his experience was that he didn't ask any chordsheets, he just asked for every song in what it key we played it!
At a certain moment we where performing 'The girl of Ipanema'. I stopped in the middle of the song and said to him; since we have 2 guitar players now, one who does the rythmic section, you could do some gentle counter melody soloing in the background while the girls are singing the theme.
ok he said and what happened? The guy went wild ! At a point that our leadsingers where loosing the theme and didn't know what  to sing anymore :)
The proof....

You seem to be an exception Oren :)

k

It's easy to remove those last two guitar bits, and go with a completely clean style. I can't do Chuck Berry without some distortion, so it will be Ventures/Shadows all the way. It should prove to be an interesting challenge.
I seem to remember playing "Walk, Don't Run" and "WipeOut" once upon a time... ;D

Oren.
i'm easy mate.
just want everyone to be happy.
in my mind i hear melodic clean surfy guitar leads,
but if thats not possible,..i'm happy with whatever
everyone is happy with.
cos i dont want to douse anyones enthusiasm n fun.
i can get too darn "picky" for my own good sometimes.
my apologies if i get too picky mate...
its just your mix has got me all excited with the possibilities
of this being a gonzo song.
 
i must say youve done a stirling job bringing the mix this far.  
god bless.  

I had sometime this afternoon, it’s raining here, so I quickly did a couple of leads that I believe blends in with Oren’s guitar parts.  I have two ogg files, one the song with my guitar parts with reverb and the other my guitar part only sans the reverb but with the count in so it will line up with the song. As usually if you believe these don’t fit feel free to let me know and I’ll try again. 

How did I do?

PS – I didn’t play a lot of surf guitar here as there is no surfing in the South-Western end of Lake Ontario or on the Erie/Barge Canal  :D

PPS – I’m another poor picked on guitarist   >:(
According to what I have read about us “more me – super lead eh?” guitarist the more I believe I may be the only guitarist on the planet who has been told “turn it up will ya” on a gig.  That really happened  :o

Beauty! I'll download this six-string action, mix it up, then add a bit of my own. It will be a few days... :;

Mario, this is exactly the sound I had in mind, very cool


The exception that confirms the rule  ;D

k

yep this is getting very interesting.
i particularly like oren has this lick after 2mins 45 secs ..
a bendy , then in the second lead area where mario comes in after this ,..
very surfy.
this is getting exciting.
god bless.

just a note mates..
i will try to check in when i can in next few days..
but wifey n i are seeing more specialists re our doggie.
its rather traumatic cos he might be loosing his vision ,
and/or god forbid dying.
we will know more in next 2 days.
so please bear with me n if you could say a few prayers for our dog
that would be nice. cos we are very upset of course.
god bless.

strength for you dog man....

k

Ed,
Best of everything for that dog of yours... :)

Gents,

Mario's guitar is mixed and reverberated, and I laid down a new track of old-school Ventures/Shadows stuff to replace my original effort, and support Mario's direction. See what you think...

Excelent !

k

 :; :;

Spot on, young'un.  :-

This sounds 'radio ready' to me. (http://bestsmileys.com/music2/7.gif)


(http://bestsmileys.com/music1/4.gif)

 ;)
James

This sounds like the perfect surf group :;

Great job on the mix Oren and super job on all of the musicians participated in this endeavor   O0

                                                   "Hang ten dude" ::)

Yeah! :-

There are a few areas where the sound could be sorted out a bit, some tonal adjustments, improved definition, and that bit of final tweaking that takes the performance from  "interesting"  to  "hang on, here comes that beach band!".
May I suggest we go for option #2..? :D

Doubtlessly, Ed will have some helpful comments that will nudge things in an appropriate direction...

Well if you are looking for some comments
I had the time this evening to listen to it in my studio, on my studio monitors
I had the impression that Mario's guitar could use a bit of a positive EQ punch in the higher regions. It sounds a tat muffled at the moment

Anyone agrees ?

k

Hmmm. Possibly, but then again it wouldn't sound 'period' of it was too clean, would it?

Good thought! Mario's sound on this one tends toward the mid-range; boosting the highs a bit before applying reverb would contribute further to that old "single-coil" vibe.
The guitar I used was a G&L Fullerton Signature, specifically built like a 1954 Strat, so the sound was already there... 8)

OK, Will, the dirt stays - just with a little more "shimmer" ;)

I'll make a list of all these recommendations, and then apply them in one session. More advice...? :)

chaps..
this is very very nearly there mates imho.
very well done. 
gimme a day to think on it will ya ??
mebe a malibu radio stn will play it. 

btw..re doggie..sadly has gone blind.
we were told by the vet after lotsa testing.
but other than that very healthy.
apparently it can happen in airedales.
so weve been given lotsa pointers on how to make life easier for doggie.
god bless.

sorry for being back late to this.
my wife n i with advice from vets
(plus a great net site called blinddog..)
are teaching our doggie a new volcab n its working well.

re malibu.
i really like the idea of the lick tradeing tween oren
n mario. in the lead breaks. great idea.
only optional idea i hear was instead of orens low licks,
mebe see how the current licks sound an octave higher sorta idea ??
oren..could you try the current licks an octave higher ??
my only other comment is here the vocs seem clearer at start of song
than the last verse vocs ?? not an ego thing..
just suggesting the last verse vocs be brought out a bit ??
god bless n huge respect to all.

Get another dog - seriously!
My family used to breed Border Collies, and we've had them go either blind or deaf but otherwise be quite healthy. It is amazing to watch the other dogs in the 'family' pick up on this and start to assist the disabled one.

Gotcha. :-*
Give the vocals more presence toward the end of the song.
Try the "strat" licks an octave higher where they interact with Mario.
 ...can do....

Mario's guitar has more top end.
Ed's vocal is boosted in the last half of the song.
A different approach to my guitar additions.(I did a lot - we can nuke those portions that don't serve the song...)

Schweet! :-

Yes, this puts it in the mix where it should be
Small change but you can realy feel it, good job here


I personally wouldn't nuke anything, the goal was to make a live performance wasn't it ?

k

 :o :o  Keeps on getting better  :; :;

Particularly from 3:00 onwards ....  O0
my old arthritis knees almost got up to dance there !!  :;

 ;)
James

GREAT MIX OREN  :-

Personally I would not change a thing  :; :; :;

PS – I really love the way your guitar work compliments my leads at the 3:05 mark.  Super job on that!

i'm easy mates.
n happy to go along with the group.
tho' i still hear in me 'ead in the two lead areas, orens licks an octave higher,
cos i think they might stand out better.
mebe try a test of such ??
but mebe i'm just hearing it differently.

Ed,

I had a go at the higher pitched melody guitar, and could not make it sound convincing - just too far from my own style of playing, too much of a stretch. It ended up sounding strained and artificial.
 Now I remember why I never tried for a carreer as a session player... ::)

Can we focus on discarding those portions of my existing guitar action that don't work?

Once that's sorted, and the levels and tonal signature of each instrument sound right, I'd like to apply a bit of "concert delay" to the whole package to see how you all like it....

'concert delay'...
Isn't that what you get when some idiot at the front of the queue has the wrong tickets and is arguing black-is-white with a long-suffering box office lady? :P

 :D... Where I come from, we call that "asking for an introduction of boot leather to butt". This maneuver would not likely work in more civilized times and places... ::)

A preliminary mix with guitar trimmed up and instruments EQed.

 The whole instrumental mix (minus bass guitar, to keep it solid) is duplicated, panned hard left and right, left delayed slightly, right delayed twice that.
 Hopefully a concert ambience resulted - you be the judge...

Recommendations for additional tweaks are invited. :)

Oren...
it sounds good here.
gimme a day to think on it if thats ok mate.
so i can go thru in detail.
sorry the octave higher didnt work out mate.
twas just an idea.

I would say it's 'done' now. Any more cooking is liable to spoil it O0

 8)

Wot the other English geezer sed  ::)

 :; :; :;

 ;)
James

i'm happy with whatever everyone decides.
only thing i might suggest is in the second later
lead area towards end.. oren is playing along with mario.
i feel it possibly should be marios lead motif then orens on its own.
rather than both at once.
thats what i hear in my head.

on another note , i'm afraid i might be coming off the net for a time.
cos ive been reviewing my isp costs which are rising.
plus ive had family stuff suddenly crop up thats gonna keep me busy.
so this is prolly the last song i can help on for many months.
i'll have to see how things go with the family stuff. sorry chaps.

Personally I think this is finished.

Manning – 1) I will respectfully disagree with you on the two leads part.  I think Oren’s lead blends with mine perfectly.  But I will be happy with whatever everyone decides. 
                2) Good luck with your family issues.  I know they can be very stressful and costly.  Been there done that – more than once. I hope you can return soon as you have been one huge asset to our community. God bless you and your family.

Ed,

Sorry to hear about family issues, take care
And I hope we'll see you back here soon

k

Keep it between the fenceposts, Ed. And slide by occasionally to say "hello", will you...? ;)

Sorting through the tracks, doing a little clean-up, it became apparent that the "concert delay" effect was causing some nasty phase conflicts at various points, so I removed it.
Here are tracks, levels adjusted to balance the mix, and EQed so each instrument has it's own voice.

... in Ogg Vorbis....

...and in mp3

Great final version !
I hope Ed likes it too

k

Me too. It was one of our most collaborative projects yet... :;

Whoa.... very very nice :)

Makes me want to do the Rock Lobster dance :D