Empires Of Dust

[folderol]

This is the final, polished version of Oren's and my collaboration.

I had hoped to put both mp3 and ogg versions here, but the upload limit seems to be for the combined files not individual ones

[Wyatt]

This has so much emotional impact..stunning.



Wyatt

[elwoodblues1969]

Will & Oren,

The marriage between the chord progressions & guitar riffs are a beautiful union...reminiscent of tunes such as "Wicked Game" from Chris Isaak and "Big Log" from Robert Plant
However though,I was'nt expecting drums to come in,as they just seemed to drop in unannounced and the drum patterns just did not seem to fit the style-as I think the drums have too much of a hard rock feel.
I think the drums would fair better if you double up on the high hat and have a softer,cocktail lounge-type country bass/snare pattern going.

Actually,this song would be great just as an ambient piece-without drums,as I think it would stand strong without any percussion whatsoever.

A very pretty song though..I really enjoyed this one.

Thom

[Oren]

...this song would be great just as an ambient piece-without drums,as I think it would stand strong without any percussion whatsoever...

Wyatt - thanks! Will's synth track struck an emotional chord for me the very first time I heard it.

Thom - I agree with you about the superfluous nature of the percussion track. It's an interesting exercise in resurrecting John Bonham for one
              more stirring performance, but it really does not serve the song.

[Wyatt]

I am rather fond of the drum track, myself.

If the song were shorter, it might do fine without it..

..but as it stands, rather than hitting cruising altitude @ 1:10 or so,
the drum track comes in smoothly and gives it lift..the drama continues
to build.

For a five minute song it is a real plus, and prevents it from becoming too
long for itself.



Wyatt

[kara]

I'm in the camp of 'against' that drum track, IMO it isn't up to par with the emotional contest of this song 
To have a drum track that fits that's style of music, you'll need Nick Mason 

But what a great song 
 
k

[offthewall]

This is an interesting debate.
When Will first posted this tune I decided to have a try at adding something to it. I ran through it dozens of times with different instrumentation and eventually gave up as I couldn't get to grips with the *timing*.
To me the addition of the drum track gives a whole new life to the piece. I love it! Maybe those who don't like the drums should have a go at reworking it from the original. That may bring the appreciation.

 
James

[folderol]

I'm actually very surprised by all this

As I think everyone knows by now, percussion is a major bogeyman for me. Nevertheless I think Oren did a good job here. I don't know whether or not it could be better, but I am fairly sure the tune would be poorer without it.

Having said that, I think it is the guitar that changes an interesting chord progression into a real statement.

[Laguna Rising]

Wooow
I was listening this one from poor laptop-speakers and I switched to headphones and now I'm sure you did a pretty good job on it.
The keyboard layering kind of sound with that clean guitar are recalling me of the Led Zep's 'In through the out door' sound and feel
It goes on very well like a natural evolution and it's really enjoyable from our musicians' point of view as well as for the casual listener...
Well done

Cheers

[Oren]

Wyatt - I'm fond of the drum track, too , and it does provide added interest....

Kara - a talented percussionist could lay down a drum track that complemented the existing timing - as it
         is, some of the hits are way off the beat, giving it a "mechanical" flavor.

James - the drums are a nice touch, and Hydrogen does as good a job as any percussion program, but... is
           this bit of programming up to the standards of the other instruments?

Will - how about I mix one without the drums, and we go with two versions? ............really

L.R. - pretty cool, eh? 

[folderol]

Will - how about I mix one without the drums, and we go with two versions? ............really

If that's what people want, I'd be quite happy about the idea. Indeed I'd be happy about any other ideas people have for this track.

[Wyatt]

Will - how about I mix one without the drums, and we go with two versions? ............really

If that's what people want, I'd be quite happy about the idea. Indeed I'd be happy about any other ideas people have for this track.

I don't know if it is actually going to happen or not, but I suspect that two entirely different perspectives might very well turn out to be two very beautiful songs, each in their own way.



Wyatt

[Oren]

I don't know if it is actually going to happen or not, but I suspect that two entirely different perspectives might very well turn out to be two very beautiful songs, each in their own way.

Taking into consideration the constructive criticism offered in this thread (as we would all be wise to do...  ), I've nearly finished two new versions of "Empires of Dust".

No percussion version:
Removing the drums results in an elegant production, and I took the opportunity to lower some of the mid-range (750 - 1250Hz) frequencies in the guitar track so it blends better with Will's ZynAddSubFX synth.

Version with percussion:
In an effort to better integrate the drums, there is now less (shorter duration) reverb on both the drums and guitar, and the over-all level of the drums is cut by about 15%. Also, the above mentioned mid-range cut is applied to the guitar.

I just need time to EQ the files for MP3 - then I'll post them both here so they can be compared with the original. Thanks to everyone who contributed recommendations; that is the true value of this forum.

[kara]

Looking forward to this 

k

[Wyatt]

I am looking forward to these too.

This song made a space for itself in my ears,
and then just moved in and made itself at home.     

Question:  Did you add the drums afterwards, or
did the song start out in the beginning with the
drum track?

Glad you've persevered; this one is worth it.



Wyatt